[Sabaron]

As a RDM, I can participate in Besieged. However, I have noticed that despite the varying power levels of the players, it is a rare thing to actually see enemies die even on lower level attacks. Most recently, a couple of parties were facing off against one Mamool Ja Spotter and besieged ended before we got it past 50%... This in incredibly frustrating. My questions are these:

Would S-E be willing to allow /checks instead of "Impossible to Gauge" on all the mobs?

Would S-E create a "mix" of monsters so that various well prepared parties could actually kill regular mobs in a decent amount of time instead of ignoring/kiting them while multiple alliances go and get repeatedly killed by the NMs?


Every time I've seen a level 6 "win", it appeared to be a "timer" win. I've never seen a level 6 general fall before the time ran out.

I've stopped participating in besieged because of the following:

(1) The experience gain is very low for the amount of work involved.
(2) My parties/alliances can never do anything except kite and die or deal puny amounts of damage (even the big MNKs can't dish out adequate damage).
(3) There are no drops, no personal/party rewards, and it's extremely easy to cap out the experience/IS reward.

I don't want besieged to always fail to take the candescence. I just feel that the event itself appears to be rather boring, since there's nothing to do but repeatedly die and raise and kite mobs away from the candy room. I would like for Besieged to actually be a worthwhile activity instead of a giant Deathfest... There is no way that Al Zahbi would ever be able to defend against the onslaught if not for the time limit. The monsters would eventually win.

[Caspian]

I'm curious, what level are the monks that you are alliancing with? Even only being 68, I can put out comparable numbers per shot to most other 70+ jobs. Typically hitting in the 80's on beasts, 50's and 60's on beastmen, and pretty well sucking like everyone else on NM's.
Numbers are low, but you trade off with the fact that you usually have about 30 people attacking the same mob at once.
The biggest changes in Besieged that I'd like to see are a better hate system, it may just be that I'm only seeing about 5% of whats actually going on with the mob, but hate seems highly erratic. I'd also like for people who are dead at the end of besieged, but still contributed, be able to still receive xp and IS. It sucks when you get aoe'd by the general right at the end, or don't get a raise in time and the last 30mins - an hour of work are all for naught.

[Karinya]

There is no time limit. The reason the players are winning is because people *are* killing monsters. Most non-NMs will go down in 5-10 minutes with a dozen or so people on them, faster with more. I've seen some monsters die in as little as 2 or 3 minutes.

Would S-E create a "mix" of monsters so that various well prepared parties could actually kill regular mobs in a decent amount of time instead of ignoring/kiting them while multiple alliances go and get repeatedly killed by the NMs?

They already did. Killing regular mobs and "small" NMs (i.e. not the megaboss) is how you win Besieged.

My main beef with Besieged is that it's obvious that many people *want* to kill the megabosses, but it's just not feasible. If you could totally control everyone in the zone and get them to stop killing normal mobs and then focus on the MB for several hours you might be able to do it, but in reality, people who doesn't want the besieged to last several hours are going to destroy their army and the MB will retreat alive. They just have too much def/eva/hp to be taken down by 200 people in an hour (even once the right NMs are killed that make them vulnerable). And frankly, if they're not intended to be mortal, what are they doing there in the first place?

[Caspian]

Originally Posted by Karinya

There is no time limit. The reason the players are winning is because people *are* killing monsters. Most non-NMs will go down in 5-10 minutes with a dozen or so people on them, faster with more. I've seen some monsters die in as little as 2 or 3 minutes.
They already did. Killing regular mobs and "small" NMs (i.e. not the megaboss) is how you win Besieged.
My main beef with Besieged is that it's obvious that many people *want* to kill the megabosses, but it's just not feasible. If you could totally control everyone in the zone and get them to stop killing normal mobs and then focus on the MB for several hours you might be able to do it, but in reality, people who doesn't want the besieged to last several hours are going to destroy their army and the MB will retreat alive. They just have too much def/eva/hp to be taken down by 200 people in an hour (even once the right NMs are killed that make them vulnerable). And frankly, if they're not intended to be mortal, what are they doing there in the first place?

Actually, Fairy took down Medusa a few days ago, in less than an hour. There were 5 mobs left total, including no. 12. There were little groups scattered about, basically just keeping the mobs from going anywhere, but not killing them. Meanwhile, about 400+ people beat on Medusa for a little over 30 mins. She was 55% when there were 6 mobs left, and then we got down to 5 and everyone just held their mobs until Medusa was killed. I believe at the time we had over 600 people in the zone, weekends NA primetime helped with this. Basically everyone just swarmed her, with several WHM's and /WHM's going around casting Stona and raises. The fight didn't really last too terribly long, and I was really impressed that it worked out the way it did. Right as she died, they retreated and it was over, with a 200xp bonus.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

(1) The experience gain is very low for the amount of work involved.
(2) My parties/alliances can never do anything except kite and die or deal puny amounts of damage (even the big MNKs can't dish out adequate damage).
(3) There are no drops, no personal/party rewards, and it's extremely easy to cap out the experience/IS reward.

(1) The experience gain is low if you're a NIN, COR or RNG - because you are basically throwing gil away to do this. Otherwise its completely free EXP for flailing at mobs and running around casting Cure or Dia on stuff, take it and be happy. Its like a free escort quest several times a week. I honestly don't think SE is going to boost the EXP again. We already have Corsair's Roll, Sanction and Empress Band elsewhere, we have enough ways to get more EXP.

(2) Damage picks up a bit starting in the mid-60s if you're a melee.

(3) The three beastmen generals do have drops, no one knows what they're for yet apparently. As for the rest, I'd prefer to see Besieged stay a free-for-all and not get turned into some endgame thing subject to RMT, claim-stealing, HNMLSes and their inane little point systems. At the same time, I don't think it needs to become about greed and in-fighting. Its better off without drops.

[Nazo]

Interesting to hear what it's like on other servers, I really love besieged. Remora loses them from time to time and it can be quite exciting to be in one of the close ones. Even as a whm/nin with fairly crappy melee gear I can do fairly consistent 30-40 dmg on the regular beastmen mobs and have managed to deal the killing blow with 200+ dmg from weaponskills so I'd expect a 'proper' DD to do much better than that.

[tdh]

Personally I enjoy Besieged as RDM. We build a LS Alliance, I Refresh, Haste, Dispel, and nuke and gain my 1080 EXP/IS with pride.

I would however like to have the mob's Evasion reduced. They have a ton of HP, and above average DEF, but it's insane that a Lv.62 DRK with Acc+42 & Sushi can't hit these mobs. Hate's also an issue I think in Besieged. With all the people running around beating on mobs, I can see it's HP bar going down, but my Poison II pulls hate? Nukes are highly resisted, but for some reason the mob's getting beat on and it just wanders around after a Dispel or "low hate" spell?

Besieged would be a great place to get Skill Ups if the mobs Evasion wasn't through the roof. Seems like you require a Lv.75 job with Weapon Merits, Acc+40 or more, and Sushi to consistently hit Besieged mobs. That's my beef.

[Sabaron]

I would still love to see the /check feature... I mean.. they aren't all NM's. There's no reason we shouldn't be able to /check them to see if our party can kill them rather than randomly dying.

It's really hard to tell when stuff dies b/c of the lag, I guess, but I suppose I probably just couldn't tell because it has always taken just about an hour to complete Besieged-6.

I suppose, also, it might be a bad idea to make the XP worth getting... That would invite too many people to join in on a regular basis, making it rather...cramped.

[Legal Fish]

It's based on numbers really. If you have 700 people, and like at least 8/10ths of them are above level 70, you'll kill the general unless your server is especially bad. Personally, I've never had a problem with monsters dying. A little local direction can go a long way.

[Caspian]

Originally Posted by Legal Fish

If you have 700 people, and like at least 8/10ths of them are above level 70, you'll kill the general unless your server is especially bad.

Thats the kicker, usually you have about half, maybe a little more that are 70+, then probably a third or so in the 60's, everything else is lower level mages and people hoping to get a few free xp.
On someone like Gurfurlor, communication isn't always the problem, but rather a-holes and retards who continually cast magic on him and keep him near full hp.

[Jarre]

I have been on 1 besiged at lvl 35 PLD, (a LS friend took me there to see what it was like) it was a lvl 6 mamook assult. about 134 people were participating. I died pretty quickly but not until after I took off 4 health points from a mammok (at lvl 35 I was impressed!) I was raised by my LS friend and told to join other mages on the battlements. We all stood in a group up there and were able to target anyone who came close to the battlements and heal them. we put out a shout "Cure availiable K-7" and basically people who were low on health ran to us and we cured. No mammoks went up the stairs to us so we were rather safe. A good tactic I beleive here on garuda. We lasted the time and won this Besieged. It was tehn broken to me that until I reach 50 I'd get no exp. still was an experience and I only died once!.

[sigraph]

for a melee point of view:
for besieged its nice to be around ~60, for lvl6 60+ is the minimum if you want to hit those things espec mammols when they spamming eva bonus ability. im not sure for the lower lvl, but for those i guess a lvl~50 would be fine. you can go exp to ToAU areas around 50+ its a fair thing i say.

[Kaickul]

I dont think the main Boss is meant to be killed. All the bosses have ridiculous magic resistance, defense, evasion and AoE damage abilities. If you do kill them... all the more credit for you.

[raidenn]

Perhaps you're not using the right gear, mobs have mad evasion and defense. Not to mention ridiculous AOE attacks like Burn. Even at level 75, I still miss.

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by raidenn

Perhaps you're not using the right gear, mobs have mad evasion and defense. Not to mention ridiculous AOE attacks like Burn. Even at level 75, I still miss.

Who me? I'm a Red Mage. I just try to keep my party alive and o'er-flowing with mana while Raising dead bodies. I think we made a mistake when we went the first time, and went with a Porrogo and didn't last very long. The Mamool Ja took the last 2 of our Serpent Generals, and the next time they came back they took our candy. The -20hp per tick Diaga effect is my favorite--what is that, Dia X? I didn't check the -DEF on it...probably should've. I'm just glad I hit 64 and can cast {Erase} now.

I've never actually tried to melee anything. Mostly, I throw enfeebles, DoT, buffs, cures, and raises--standard RDM stuff (except for the inexplicably high number of Raises). I also found that I can get hit by one of the Mamool Ja Level 6 General's spinny wheely thingies and not die if I have Stoneskin and Blink up... I don't know if the Blink did anything... I just know it disappeared along with Stoneskin and I had nice orange HP.