[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

If you're going to have to hold back WS, why not just have Utsusemi up and hold back less? This is a genuinely puzzling attitude for me.

The "holding back" you're referring to is actually quite minimal. This is my typical cycle:

1. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
2. Seigan/Third Eye
3. Meditate
4. WS
5. Jump
6. WS
7. Super Jump
8. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
9. Seigan/Third Eye
10. WS
11. High Jump
<<< Somewhere in here you get another Jump.
12. Hasso, Build TP to 100%
13. Seigan/Third Eye
14. WS
15. Cycle should be at or near restart (go back to 1)

I get to launch all of my WS as soon as I am able and there is only one WS in the cycle in which I'm protected only by S/3E. The other two jumps are highly mitigated. Since the first 2 WS are launched in rapid succession, both of them are being mitigated by one Super Jump. S/3E is used to mitigate while getting enough TP for the 2nd WS. It's not "holding back" so much as it is a change in the timing of ability usage.

I don't understand why I would want to assume that everyone in my party sucks and bring a gimp sub. I would prefer to bring a good sub and assume that everyone is either good at what they do or trainable to a point where they can be. If that isn't possible, I simply change my strategy rather than my subjob. The former can be changed on the fly in the field as needed and my subjob can only be changed in town. Therefore if we end up swapping a bad tank for a good tank, I won't be stuck on /NIN when I really want to unload as /SAM. Tweaking strategy is, in my opinion, a superior choice to tweaking subjob. Essentially, going /NIN severely cripples your damage (and it does); why would I want to be always crippled when I could just voluntarily hold back as needed?

---------- Post added at 11:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 AM ----------

I want to go a bit more deeply into cycle downgrading. We have 3-5 major phases in the cycle depending on how fast you are chaining (keep in mind I'm 74DRG, and haven't done this in a traditional G. Coli meripo).


NOTE: If you don't have Seigan yet, deactivate Hasso before you use Third Eye.

First Phase
The first phase is the Super Jump phase. In this phase we want to create the biggest spike damage burst we can and then shed the whole thing with Super Jump. We use S/3E to reduce the amount of damage we take from the time we launch the attack to the time we hit SJ.

>> We can insert a S/3E only phase here while we're waiting for Jump's timer to end allowing us to use our Jump in conjunction with High Jump later on depending on speed. See 3rd phase below.<<

Second Phase
The next phase is the High Jump phase. This is the second most lenient attack routine we have. If you have bridged well and your Jump timer is ready, you can do your S/3E, WS, Jump, High Jump and mitigate a good bit of damage. The longer you wait before launching the main attack, the better, because it allows High Jump to reduce enmity from your auto-attack as well. If you find you are still drawing hate on this phase, remain in Seigan mode or just don't reactivate Hasso until the mob dies.

Third Phase

These phases are when you will receive the bulk of your damage as you have no enmity mitigation to go with them. In general, you will always be doing S/3E before you WS. Whether or not you can shift back to Hasso depends on how much hate you're getting. The only time you should have to hold back is during these phases.

When you hold WS to the end, you waste TP. Don't use a WS when it will do more damage than your mob has life remaining. For DRG on birds, my WS has been running around 15-25% of mob life so if I'm holding WS, I wait for 25%. If you are full at the start of the fight, you can chance an early WS, but try to wait for the first or second provoke and go right after it obviously with S/3E up. You can also try to use your WS at the same time as other DDs--this way the hate will be shared among you rather than concentrated on one of you.

If you have a PLD tank, stand so that he/she can Cover you during one of these phases. You may also see Rampart go up when you turn the mob. Obviously, a Ninja can't do this for you so you're relying on S/3E.

Remember that you can swap in defensive gear if you have it on you, and if all else fails, just turn your back to the mob. Note that if you have to turn your back to the mob, you probably want to voluntarily reduce your output a bit more.

Here are your basic phase downgrade options in order of preference:

1. Leave Seigan on (or don't put Hasso back up if you don't have Seigan yet).
2. Hold WS until other DDs WS.
3. Hold WS until 2nd Provoke.
4. Hold WS until 25% mob HP.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

All of the above being said, I will say that I also see the point of the /NIN subjob which is obviously a very useful sub in terms of damage mitigation. However, where it fails for Dragoon is in the loss of the key abilities that make it good for WAR and other one-handed weapon wielders: The Dual Wield ability doesn't function with two handed weapons, so there is no DPS bonus. Essentially, you sub Ninja for one ability: Utsusemi which is a great ability for certain situations where extraordinary damage mitigation is needed.

/NIN gives extra mitigation in exchange for giving up all damage increasing abilities like Meditate, Hasso, Zanshin, Store TP, Berserk, and Double Attack. It also gives you the Hybrid Wyvern which is not suitable for healing.

I would say that, in general I like /BLU better than /NIN for damage mitigation because it allows the DRG to do backup healing for very little MP. The only situation in which I would recommend going for /NIN is when you need shadows to mitigate certain attacks by mobs that do large amounts of damage if you have no shadows up (Shadow-consuming AoE attacks like Slimes Fluid Spread that consume one or more shadows and deal damage based on how many shadows are consumed). Slimes in Temenos are a prime example of where /NIN shines. There are also many mission NMs for which shadows are very useful.

I doubt very much that there is a significant difference between the damage output of /NIN versus the output of /BLU but for the fact that /BLU provides a way to boost ones STR and use certain spells like Bludgeon whereas /NIN does not and /NIN provides the wyvern the ability to use Elemental Breaths and /BLU does not. Mitigation provided by the Cocoon spell and the ablitity to heal yourself and others, I think, makes /BLU more palatable to me in a party than /NIN since at least /BLU can also provide any of the following Job Traits all of which are damage mitigators:

Beast Killer
Lizard Killer
Undead Killer (for fun with Bourdonasse)
Auto Regen +1 (My favorite)

[Celeal]

Just my 2 gil~

If going for DRG/BLU or DRG/mage in party, try to keep the pet alive.

To OP:
DRG/mage can heal [potentially], while DRG/DD has more damage output [potentially]. I suggest level multiple subjobs, which is a common practice for FFXI players. The more "usable" subjob you have, more fun you can have in this game.

[sp4rk]

I have another question, if someone is at 32% (Healing breath range) and I cast a cure on him to bring him over 33%, will my wyvern still cast Healing Breathe on him?

[Tickmeoff]

Unless it has been changed recently, negative. Healing them (or yourself) over the minimum HP required for HB to activate will cause it to not go off.

[pixiehawk]

Originally Posted by sp4rk

I have another question, if someone is at 32% (Healing breath range) and I cast a cure on him to bring him over 33%, will my wyvern still cast Healing Breathe on him?

nope, healing breath will not go off.

It ticks me off when my whm regen and gear swapping for HB put me 1 hp over the threshold when I'm soloing. Silly Ginger should just HB a tick faster darn it.

[Celeal]

Another consideration for Healing Breath is it requires time to fire off. Without the AF helm, the risk at 33% HP trigger is quite high: the mob may have time to launch additional attacks before Healing Breath goes off.

[Sabaron]

I have a related question and or answer:

Drachen Armet increases the health threshold for activation to 50%.

Wyrm Armet increases the power of healing breath to Cure IV levels, but (I assume) leaves the activation threshold at 25%.

If I set up a macro like this:

/equip head "Drachen Armet"
/ma "Power Attack" <t>
/wait {{n}}
/equip head "Wyrm Armet"
/wait {{m}}
/equip head "Normal Hat"

Do there exist numbers {{n}} and {{m}} such that I can use both armets on the same activation to achieve Cure IV potency with 50% threshold?

I would probably start with n=1 and m=3 and then work them out from there if I was testing, but I don't have Wyrm Armet (and probably will not for a while, since I'm working on Duelist's Chapeau).

[sp4rk]

Hey guys I once again have another question *sorry =(* It is in terms of a soloing subjob. As a whm subjob would you be casting cure to top yourself off or do you guys wait for the 33% to start busrt healing yourself with HB? I have been also looking at drg/rdm and was wondering if the debuffs from the rdm sub job would be worthwhile and help me while soloing? You also have cure and a defensive wyvern, so I feel subbing rdm might be the all around package with paralyze,blinds, and other damage over times.

[pixiehawk]

Originally Posted by Sabaron

I have a related question and or answer:

Drachen Armet increases the health threshold for activation to 50%.

Wyrm Armet increases the power of healing breath to Cure IV levels, but (I assume) leaves the activation threshold at 25%.

If I set up a macro like this:

/equip head "Drachen Armet"
/ma "Power Attack" <t>
/wait {{n}}
/equip head "Wyrm Armet"
/wait {{m}}
/equip head "Normal Hat"

Do there exist numbers {{n}} and {{m}} such that I can use both armets on the same activation to achieve Cure IV potency with 50% threshold?

I would probably start with n=1 and m=3 and then work them out from there if I was testing, but I don't have Wyrm Armet (and probably will not for a while, since I'm working on Duelist's Chapeau).

The threshold counts for when the spell starts, so having the Drachen before the spell starts is to make it go off at 50%, you can change it before the spell finishes and be fine. the Wyrm needs to be on before the spell finishes/breath starts to get the improvement. That is how my macro is set up, although I am usually /whm and haven't played with /blu as that job is only 22 or so right now. play with the timing a little if it doesn't work. I love getting over 400 cured for 8 MP

Originally Posted by sp4rk

Hey guys I once again have another question *sorry =(* It is in terms of a soloing subjob. As a whm subjob would you be casting cure to top yourself off or do you guys wait for the 33% to start busrt healing yourself with HB? I have been also looking at drg/rdm and was wondering if the debuffs from the rdm sub job would be worthwhile and help me while soloing? You also have cure and a defensive wyvern, so I feel subbing rdm might be the all around package with paralyze,blinds, and other damage over times.

I'm guessing this is before you have the Drachen? I didn't solo much (had a kick ass static, so no real need to) but the healing breath cure would have been my "Oh Shit" cure, not a normal mid fight cure then. Sub rdm is fine, but it will give you a little less MP so you'll need to watch that. And macro in whatever spell is quickest / costs the least amount of MP for Healing Breath. The quicker it casts the faster you heal, the less it costs the more heals you'll get. I would also do a self target spell, so you can use it between fights without starting a new fight. Barstone is 6 MP and a very quick cast time, although the recast time sucks. You can also use say dia, but I'd still have a self target as well. When I /whm I use Poisona.

[sp4rk]

I unlocked my drg a day or two ago, and granted I am only 13ish, I find it rather like my warrior (Autoattack/WS/Jump). Are there any good subjobs I can go that would allow me to do more during combat in an exp party?

Sorry to bring a dead thread alive, thought it woudl be better than making a new one

[Sabaron]

Low-level for party DD:

Best: /COR 20-30+ for Hunter's Roll
/RNG 20-30+ for Accuracy Bonus
/WAR 30+ for Berserk
/SAM 60+ for Meditate

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I hate to say it, but there's not a whole lot of "doing" on melee jobs at low level unless you're a BLU. It pretty much is just autoattack and WS til you get 30 and higher.

If you want constant activity, again: RNG, COR, BRD, RDM, WHM, BLM, BLU and SCH are probably more up your alley. RNG and BLU require constant attention for optimal melee output. COR and BRD must constantly keep up buff, BRD is expected to pull and COR welcome to shoot their guns. RDM heals, enfeebles, nukes and melees in some stretches of the game. WHM is the premire healer, but also has some interesting twists these days and is pretty melee capable in some areas as well. SCH isn't a capable melee at all, but twists magic to do some things no other class can do with the exact same spells.

High activity for melees doesn't really come til later, like 55+ where things will start to speed up more notably in regards to EXP per hour. For mage/support, the high activity is always there.

[sp4rk]

You spoke of Blu as needing constant attention, Isnt blu like Blm where you kinda use all your spells right when they are off recast while only letting some melee hits in if they so happen to get in bewteen casts

[Reverent Knight]

If you use all your spells soon as they are up your out of mp in 2 fights and have to rest for the next 2 mobs which really ticks people off, youve got to be careful with how you fire your spells cause they use a silly amount of mp for some of them. your only as good as a blu long as your mp holds after that your just a crap ninja or a weak thf.

solo blu you spam your ass off but in a partys there no time to rest for mp when your on chain 6

[Sabaron]

If you're going to to Blue Mage all the way, and do it well, (or really any job that uses mp), you should learn to cook and make juices while you level. Lots of low-level BLUs will blow their whole mp bar on one mob and then sit as said above. The problem with this is that while you are obviously maximizing your mp-based damage, you are reducing your melee-based DPS. Refresh yourself at 2mp/tick and rest like a PLD.