Advanced Model Editing Advice Sought: Greatsword - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

Stromgarde · 07-19-2005, 06:33 PM

Seeing as there seem to be a great number of well-educated people here on the subject, I figured this would be the best place to ask my question.

I've downloaded Metasequoia, and tinkered around with it to deform a Falx into this, which about as closely resembles the Souledge as I can get it with the current mapping. Currently, I've run up against a brick wall, unable to figure out how to 'repaint', add polygons, or remove polygons from the model without mangling the model badly.

Attatched is a .zip file: Inside is Souledge.DAT, which on my system is renamed to 113.DAT and placed into ROM/38/113.DAT (Glorious Sword / Subduer) - It should be fine for exporting into Metasequoia using the model viewer however.

Also included is the .dds DXT3 texture file being used as the skin, with the alpha such that it shines along the cutting edge, and has a dull glow along the reverse edge.. It's a bit of a kludge, since I can't figure out how to reassign the areas (I'm very inexperienced with 3D modelling, but love to tinker with things). Something odd I've noticed in game, and inside Metasequoia itself is that the blade, the crosspiece (as so to speak), and the handle are considered polygon groups of sorts... the last two sets are not rendered to reflect light, and react oddly to being assigned strong tilts in the alpha.

Again, I've come about as far as I can by just using the .dds photoshop plugin without learning to 'repaint' the model itself, as well as moving around the existing anchor points as the model. Is there anything I can do to push further, or resources in english I could be looking at?

Xyphere · 07-19-2005, 06:39 PM

omg It's Nightmare's sword, not bad for a first try

Shiznicle · 07-19-2005, 08:05 PM

I think it looks great. I don't use greatswords, or else I'd really consider using it.

Yossar · 07-19-2005, 08:14 PM

Can't be done in Metasequoia, that much i know. any guide to model editing?

I'm assuming VRS is required to handle the .mcd problem, but I have yet to figure out that program.

Jei · 07-19-2005, 08:15 PM

coooool. the texture looks a bit stretching near the grip. I'm still trying to figure out how to work with the UVs right now so can't really help on that part yet.

Kir0s · 07-19-2005, 08:17 PM

If there was bumpmapping supported in FFXI graphics engine you could make it look alot better but go first try keep at it and use alot of refrences.

Stromgarde · 07-19-2005, 08:19 PM

I was afraid of that. Metaseqoia prohibits exporting under the 'trial' version, and from what I gathered from the website the full version is not available in english. That being said, there are some hidden components to the .DAT format that I haven't quite been able to get a grip on yet.

The model viewer 'knows' what the original model was, and shoehorns it in only when the original source model is on the currently displayed avatar, even between subtypes of the same weapon/armor slot.

Aside from that there's also the problem of adding/removing polygons, which it appears I can't without severely boning something.

As for the stretching, it's unavoidable as far as I can see. I can't figure out how to repaint the texture map, so until I can, stretchy stretchy it is.

Stromgarde · 07-20-2005, 07:27 PM

I think I've made a major breakthrough for remapping the bitmaps. I'll make another post once I've gotten a bit further.

Double Post Edited:
I've tinkered around with the UV settings enough to get it... somewhat like I want, however a direct past down won't work because the texture resolution seems to be locked at 64x64 for the .DAT file.

Anyone know if there's a way to change this?

Yossar · 07-20-2005, 09:14 PM

I know you can use more than one texture with a .dat. I've looked at some JP custom .dats that have done this. However you are still SOL in terms of actually doing this unless you can figure out VRS. My tests have clearly shown that the .mcd file that is also produced when you export DAT to MQO contains information on all the vertices of the model. The minute you add or remove one or more, the model will not be sucessfully converted back to a .dat file. VRS seems to have built in features to fix this problem, but I have yet to get around to switching my OS language back to JP and install Oh Text Hooker so that I can attempt to figure this all out.

Stromgarde · 07-21-2005, 12:16 AM

Well, I sort of had the UV mesh adjustment working for a while, now it completely ignores anything I'm telling it to do differently from the base... what is VRS exactly?

Double Post Edited:
Well, after many hours of poking around and ultimately realizing what was causing the problem was something incredibly stupid and in front of my nose, I got everything to click.

Fruition.

There is some noticable stretching due to the limitations of the 64x64 texture size, that's one of the few things I still haven't been able to figure out yet. I'll post again tomorrow with details once I get some rest and my head cleared.

Jei · 07-21-2005, 12:22 AM

hmm yea the texture looks really low res in the screen shots. Can you show me the exact UV lay out you have? Is it the pic you posted above? this? http://theleetshell.revhost.net/host...ledgemodel.gif

Stromgarde · 07-21-2005, 12:24 AM

No, that's a different file. I'll post the related materials in the morning, including high-res pics from metasequoia and model viewer.

While the low res is noticable in combat, it isn't really while running around at 1280x1024.

Stromgarde · 07-21-2005, 08:41 AM

Alright, first things first. The #1 problem that I had is a very small software bug that most applications don't have.

Metasequoia will not warn you that a file was not successfully saved if it is currently in use.

That means while editing the UV in Metasequoia, you cannot also at the same time have the Model Viewer running at the same time. Perhaps FFXI and Photoshop as well, but in my case it was having Foyle/Ajido's model viewer open that prevented the UV remapping from sticking. Onto the maps!

This is the wireframe model. Nothing special, just some deformations made around a source image. Note however that the material has to be loaded as a .jpg as the source texture, but will not transfer through when using model viewer to convert- you need identical .jpg and .dds files, the .jpg for making the model, and the .dds for injecting it into the .DAT using ChangeTex.

This is the UV model. I started by selecing segments using the rectangular select tool, moving the model over the bitmap, then pressing the 'Project' button on the UV menu, followed by fine tuning by moving the points around to get it right. There is some overlap between the two segments. Not visible on this are bright green alignment lines I drew ensure a continuous image, and removed from the final version.

The resolution is fairly low, but seeing as the bitmap seems to be locked in at 64x64, I'm not sure it could look any better for a full-lenge bitmap image such as this. The other remaining problem seems to be the alpha on the hilt and handle, as mentioned earlier in the post. They have specific alpha properties for those two parts of the sword, but I still can't figure out how to alter it, the materials property dialogue isn't being any help at all.

Attatched as a zip are the .mqo, .dat, .jpg and .dds files.

Yossar · 07-21-2005, 09:07 AM

So did you add verticies to the sword or just edit preexisting ones?

Stromgarde · 07-21-2005, 09:51 AM

Just edited the prexisting ones. A sword doesn't really have all that complex of a shape (trianglular prism, rectangle, cylinder), and the UV mapping took care of the scaling. Still haven't figured out how to add/remove polys, which seems to be the thing everyone's after.