[Dyft]

Hey all,

I have been toying around with DRK as a tank for a low man static PT. Now before you all tell me how insane I am, I am well aware that a DRK is a DD and NOT a tank however I couldent help but notice that DRK gets access to a LOT of the armors a PLD wears throughout their levels of tanking such as iron muskateers etc.

At low levels (where we are atm as my DRK was 10 to start heh) the DRK has been performing BETTER then the PLD (when my PLD 22 was syncing down to 10 to the SCH) which just shocked the ever living crud out of me. Now of course at level 10 the game is completely different from higher levels but after looking over the armor selection and various subs DRK on PAPER looks like they should be able to handle tanking Ts and VTs in a low man party.

My main question is an odd one, For a LOW MAN situation (mainly 3 person parties) which would be targeting Ts/VTs would a DRK in a defensive setup be viable as the tank? Does a DRKs dmg output exceede that of a PLDs to enough degree that the killspeed would make up for the lack in defence? Or do PLDs do better dmg these days to where a PLD geared for offence would be stronger then a DRK geared for defence?

I know its a crazy idea.... but I only considered it because at level 10-15ish the DRK performed better then the PLD in our low man.... Please take in to consideration that this would be for LOW MAN ONLY and thus for would NOT be fighting ITs and by no means do I have any delusions that a DRK could come close to tanking as well as a PLD the questions are more about do we NEED that much defence and would the Offence of a defensively geared DRK be high enough to justify the extra damage taken?

[ShepardG]

FAIL! one post was enough.

What are the other 2 jobs? healer and another DD?

And your idea might be fesable until you get to kazham, and then your just going to be taking to much dmg as DRK. You get no defense based traits or buffs as DRK and this starts to show around 25ish. Now if you sync in the dunes ...forever....you might could pull it off. But you'll probably wanna rip your hair out after like 3 weeks of that ridiculus, no-skill-up, crab fighting, screwdriver-destroying-you exp party. don't do it. Pld, whm or rdm, and any dedicated Damage job, will the way to go.

[Dyft]

Or possibly I could ask about the classes im asking about in their respective forums... not all DRKs browse the PLD forums and not all PLDs brouse the Drks forums, however i was wanting the opitnion of both DRKs and PLDs... but thanks for posting absolutely nothing of value.

[ShepardG]

I edited it, and most users use the "new post" button on the front page, so they see every new post for the past 24 hours. aka: you asking the same question twice

[Pwnagraphic]

DRK! I just took it easy on DPS when I got to Kazham lol.

[ShepardG]

taking it easy on DPS is only gonna mean your taking more dmg from the MOB because your not killing it faster. and your back to where you started.

I could be wrong, but that's just how it seems to me.

[Celeal]

It depends on what kind of support/party you got and what mob you are fighting. Before level 30 most heavy armor melee can tank in exp. parties fine, even in full 6 members parties.

When PLD gets Flash at level 37, it marks the first big difference for tanking. (Like NIN at 37 -> 40)

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

I thought your PLD was already Lv50+.

My latest accomplishments? Well I just got my first 61+ char and I've been playing off and on since release. Now on the other hand, I do have NIN, SAM, BLU, DRG, WAR, PLD, RDM, WHM, PUP, DNC, all level 50+ lol. and almost every job 37

I'd say see how far you can go on DRK if you enjoy it. Once you start taking too much damage as DRK/WAR, you could always try DRK/BLU with the other DD going /NIN. Stun, Bind, Sturmwind, Bludgeon, Head Butt, and Drain should help you start fights with some significant enmity, but I don't expect you to keep hate through the other DD's weaponskill.

DRK/BLU
Lv01 - Pollen
Lv10 - Drain
Lv15 - Last Resort
Lv16 - Cocoon
Lv20 - Bind, Aspir, Weapon Bash
Lv24 - Head Butt
Lv30 - Souleater, Sleep
Lv36 - Bludgeon
Lv37 - Stun

[Dyft]

Originally Posted by Ryoii/Nonomii

I thought your PLD was already Lv50+.



I'd say see how far you can go on DRK if you enjoy it. Once you start taking too much damage as DRK/WAR, you could always try DRK/BLU with the other DD going /NIN. Stun, Bind, Sturmwind, Bludgeon, Head Butt, and Drain should help you start fights with some significant enmity, but I don't expect you to keep hate through the other DD's weaponskill.

DRK/BLU
Lv01 - Pollen
Lv10 - Drain
Lv15 - Last Resort
Lv16 - Cocoon
Lv20 - Bind, Aspir, Weapon Bash
Lv24 - Head Butt
Lv30 - Souleater, Sleep
Lv36 - Bludgeon
Lv37 - Stun

Yea sorry not sure why I added PLD to that list... sorry about that That one was a mistake... I am going to get a SS of my job levels for my sig here shortly but ive been lazy... I do the forums at work play at home so . My apologies... now the Drk/Blu is a really good idea... I was subbing war last night for voke. Our low man has 1 SCH (hes locked in to SCH until 75 as its his new favorite job lol) 1 DRG and Myself. My main job is DRG which is why my buddy is playing DRG in our low man.. In all honesty I just dont think a NIN or a PLD is going to put out the kind of dmg that will be conductive to a 3 person partys kill speed. My theory was that since with 3 people we can easily get 200xp+ on VTs we have no need to fight ITs (excpet accadental agro or what have you) so that we wouldent necessarly need a "tank" job. Then I got to looking about a lot of the armor PLDs tank with being DRK useable.. i figured.. we a dd in tank armor with hybrid (not bad for tanking or bad for dps accessories).. I farmed my PCC and Emp Hairpin LONG ago so those are 2 toys I bring to the table that will help dmg and tanking without hurting either really...

How would a Monk fair? with guard and parry and counter and all that fancy jazz? I mean monks can put out solid DoT and I suppose they may be more of a "natural" tank then DRK? what do you all think?

[Armando]

Or possibly I could ask about the classes im asking about in their respective forums... not all DRKs browse the PLD forums and not all PLDs brouse the Drks forums, however i was wanting the opitnion of both DRKs and PLDs... but thanks for posting absolutely nothing of value.

Tip: It's much easier to get help when you're not being a dick.

This forum has a very small number of users, and they pretty much all look for threads via New Posts and Today's Posts features. Thus, both DRKs and PLDs and anyone else that knows enough about the game to make educated assertions will see your question wherever it is. It's not exactly an offense, but it's annoying to have 2 threads that address pretty much the same question, since one of two things will always happen:
1) One thread will be ignored completely in favor of the first thread that got a reply (like is currently happening)
2) You'll have two discussions going on in 2 different threads, and will have to go back and forth between them. This isn't just inconvenient for you, it's annoying for the readers too.

Moving on: The idea isn't outrageous but you need to establish the context a bit clearer. The question isn't "Is it possible?" It's "Do we want to? Do we have better options?" If you have a PLD and a DRK it's pretty much in your best interests for the PLD to tank. You gotta answer some questions:
1) What's your group, exactly? Jobs and levels.
2) What is your goal? Are you only looking to get to a certain level? Get someone to a certain level? Will someone change jobs halfway? What's your definition of "low levels?"
3) If the DRK tanks, does the PLD (assuming you have one) have another job he can use that would benefit the party more?

DRK can hold hate and acquire a lot of Defense, but a PLD can also hold hate and have even better Defense. DRK can reduce the mob's lifespan significantly with Shield Break, but that's something the DRK can do regardless of whether he's tanking or not. And DRK's hate-holding options vary by level.

P.S. It's better for you to chain Ts than go for VTs. EXP/hour > EXP/kill.

[Dyft]

Originally Posted by Armando

Tip: It's much easier to get help when you're not being a dick.

You've been a dick to me since my first post, why would you expect me to act any differently?

Moving past that, Its not that we have a PLD and a DRK in the party.. we have 1 SCH 1DRG and myself... we are playing for fun. there is no real level goal we are just 3 real life friends that enjoy having a semi static party thats sole purpose is just to go around beat the crap outta stuff (preferably stuff that gives xp). I have all 20 jobs unlocked and level 10+ so theretically I could play any job for this party. However, as this party has a Caster(that can heal) and a melee DD, I figured that I would most likely end up tanking. I could always take WHM and make the DRG tank but well I hate WHM lol... What I'm really after is a class that would be able to at least decantly hold hate off of a SCH and DRG while being able to take the hits while still being able to fight back to some degree... I've never been a fan of tanks that can stand there all day getting beat on but cant fight their way out of a paper bag. I refuse to play my NIN under level 40 due to Nis and to be honest I never really liked NIN.

Anyhow I originally thought that maybe a DRK or PLD may fit the bill but I've been leaning twards MNK lately. I do just so happen to own Fumas, Brown Belt, Wyvern Earring, Cross-counters, Empress Hairpin, PCC, and a few other toys a MNK may find enjoyable. I even have the level 50ish Counter pants (not sure where i got them from but even have those). Also having played PUP my guard is capped at level 40 for sure (Level I went out and capped guard with PUP) which should be at least a decant starting point for MNK (think they have a higher guard cap)

As far as the posting in 2 threads, every other board I've posted at thats the NORM... so by default I followed the norm.... having said that I will remember in the future at these forums that you all perfer that people dont do that.

[Nuriko]

Why are you seemingly so keen on blood-tanking? If both you and the DRG go /NIN, you should be able to trade off well enough, and just recast shadows when the mob turns away after taking a hit or two. As was noted before, DRK can do well enough through to 25, and that's far enough for you to start using /NIN. Some parties work well without a tank, even before merit levels ... you just have to keep the mob changing targets and be willing to use your shadows.

[ShepardG]

Originally Posted by Armando

1) One thread will be ignored completely in favor of the first thread that got a reply (like is currently happening)

Except callisto ^^

[Dyft]

Nuriko, I'm keen on blood tanking because I *HATE* blink tanking. Other then that *I* HATE /Nin on jobs that cant dual wield. (this does NOT mean that I DON'T sub ninja... it means what I said... I dont LIKE to) my DRG friend is very similar in that aspect...

I honestly believe that we would both have more fun getting less xp but not having to sub NIN. Sorry, we don't discount its usefulness we just don't like it. We both have NIN at 45+ too lol (mines 45 his is 50something) Just a job we never liked but both opted to level up for /nin (dynamis etc) and UO BCNM lol. Infact I havent XPed ninja since level 40.... 40-45 was xp rewards for promies etc... lol

[Icemage]

There's nothing wrong with using DRK as a tank at low levels - until PLD really hits its stride with things like Sentinel and Auto-Refresh (and other MP-restoring effects like Ballad / Refresh / Evoker's Roll), the extra damage from DRK outstrips the minimal enmity boost from Cures when you can't cast too many of them.

DRK also gets comparable armor to PLD for a good many levels, so really the only difference defensively there is Shield/Parry skill and the (mostly negligible) effect of Defense Boost job traits. Granted, shields do give a quite nifty damage reduction bonus, but it's also a trade-off in damage (and thus enmity generation, so that might be a wash overall as long as you have enough healing power to keep up with the extra damage - maybe a Dancer?).

You might want to make contingency plans for later levels if you plan on advancing too far beyond level 30 or so, however.


Icemage