[Takelli]

I know this may seem fairly obvious what the sub of a Drk should be, and how well that it will work, but I have a question about other subs for the drk.

I have been playing as 40Drk/Thf, and it REALLY helps me take less damage due to the +15 Eva I get frrom the thf sub (And, I do actually have a decent avoidence rate from IT+ mobs), and I have a guranteed crit every 1 min.

Now, that I am lvl 40 as Drk, I want to try other options, but I want to see what you have to say about the subs.

I know as Drk/Rdm I have a cure II, and will have Regen. I even have blaze spikes, and Drks have a decent int already. They even get first tier "enspells" which helps their damage even more, but it wont be all that much as they don't have enhancing magic. But, they have a Dark Magic skill which will allow you to use the Rdms Dark magic (Bind, Blind, Gravity, ect...) and have it stick, and will give you more options to use magic. You even get Stone Skin, and Phalanx at higher lvls which helps with damage reduction. But, with all that, you sacrafice some melee ability which is what Drk is about, hitting the mob, and hard.

With Warrior, you get berserk which helps with damage out put, increased attack, defender if you ever pull hate and taking too much damage, and even Double Strike.

Drk/Whm will help you heal yourself, but it better for solo.

Drk/Blm will give you more int, and more MP allowing you to deal more MB damage (Although they dont do that stuff any more.)

I am just wondering what you all think about the subs for Drk, and how well you think they will work. I think it will be fairly good as Drk/Rdm. Phalanx And Stone skin are really nice.

[Armando]

I have been playing as 40Drk/Thf, and it REALLY helps me take less damage due to the +15 Eva I get frrom the thf sub (And, I do actually have a decent avoidence rate from IT+ mobs),

I highly doubt this.

Regarding /RDM: Enspells suck on 2-handed weapons, and they suck hard without Enhancing Skill. Phalanx and Stoneskin suck without Enhancing Skill. Enfeebles have nothing to do with Dark Magic Skill, that's Enfeebling magic. Dark Magic is for Drain/Aspir/Absorbs/Stun.

DRKs suck at nuking. Don't even think about /BLM. /RDM gives MAB anyways.

Stick to /WAR by default, /SAM will become awesome at 60. /THF won't see much use until 60 unless you're in a traditional 1 tank-2DD-3 Mage/Support setup that revolves around you closing a powerful skillchain. It'll be more useful post-60 when TA comes into play.

[Takelli]

I thought that Dark enfeebles ran off of dark magic. Just like elemental enfeeble run off of elmental magic.

The /Thf does help kill a mob faster when shit happens. I can usually hit nearly for 300 dmg and kill a monster instantly if its attacking the healer or another squishy guy, and teh tank cant get hate back. Or, I can use the Last resort to pull hate to myself if needed if I cant kill it with the SA+WS.

As for the avoidence rate I mean when teh monsters manages to turn to me, and actually start to attack me. I see a few misses in its attack rounds. 1/20 I consider a decent avoidence rate.

I know that enspell damage sucks with 2 handed weapons. Enspell damage should be based on teh damage that you deal like how the drain samba is.

I've MBd off a few Skill chains with the Blms in the parties before and have seen decent numbers for a Drk nukes. (65 at most).

With Rdm subbed, the Enhancing skill will max out the damage that enspells can do at max lvl, and Phalanx will prevent like 6 damage, but I gotta do the math just to see how well it will work.

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by Takelli

But, they have a Dark Magic skill which will allow you to use the Rdms Dark magic (Bind, Blind, Gravity, ect...) and have it stick, and will give you more options to use magic.

Ugh. So many things wrong with this.

First of all, all the spells you listed? Enfeebling Magic. Which you do actually have native skill in, but it's a whopping C. And you already have Bind natively. But I bet you didn't notice because of your ever-so-impressive native Enfeebling Skill? And the only actual Dark Magic spell Red Mages have is freaking Bio, which you have already as well!!!

Maybe you can land some of those other enfeebles on easier mobs, as in, the kind you would be soloing. Maybe. Or maybe you'll be better off exploiting your A+ Dark Magic skill, anyway. Or, heck, maybe even both! (I hear Absorb-MND does wonders for Slow; it also helps Enfeebles in general as well by lowering the mob's MND, so casting it at the start of a fight in a party with a RDM in it will make them happy.)

[Armando]

I've MBd off a few Skill chains with the Blms in the parties before and have seen decent numbers for a Drk nukes. (65 at most).

Two words: Opportunity costs.

If you honestly think boosting your Magic Burst damage by 20% (that's what, a single low-damage nuke every minute?) is worth not having Berserk or Sneak Attack, you're nuts.

With Rdm subbed, the Enhancing skill will max out the damage that enspells can do at max lvl,

What?

Please elaborate, you honestly lost me here.

[Nuriko]

You didn't even mention DRK/NIN there, that's one of the more popular subs. Granted, it doesn't do a thing for your damage output, but what it DOES do is lets you edge over the hate line and take a few hits without taking damage.

By the way, /THF really comes into its own at 60, where you can TA on to the tank, and not worry too much about things afterwards...

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Armando

If you honestly think boosting your Magic Burst damage by 20% (that's what, a single low-
damage nuke every minute?) is worth not having Berserk or Sneak Attack, you're nuts.

Thats not what I am saying. Thats what I was doing as /thf, so I do not know the true potential of the /blm sub for SC/MB. Having berserk or sneak attack are both really nice, but if you have a job that can dispel defense bonuses, magic damage can help kill the monster faster, but that is rare so it doesn't really matter. But, in Dynamis where Blms are nuking the hell out of bosses because they can charm melee characters, having a Drk as /Blm, can help kill the bosses even faster.

Originally Posted by Armando

What?

Please elaborate, you honestly lost me here.

I didn't word that correctly. What I meant was that at max level (75), with enfeebling maxed on Rdm, the enfeebling magic skill should make enspell damage be maxed out. I haven't done the math though, so I don't know. I just know that by lvl 30(Rdm/Nin), I was dealing about 7 damage with the enspells, and enfeebling was no where near maxed.

<Edit> Nuriko, I did not mention /nin as that is what a majority of Drks sub. It is nice to beable to avoid attacks, but I want to find an alternitive sub that is good and can help the party as well.

[Armando]

MAB is just a fixed % boost. You don't have to try it to know what it'll do. You were doing 65 damage on an MB? Ok, now you'll do 20% more - 78. That's all.

What I meant was that at max level (75), with enfeebling maxed on Rdm, the enfeebling magic skill should make enspell damage be maxed out. I haven't done the math though, so I don't know. I just know that by lvl 30(Rdm/Nin), I was dealing about 7 damage with the enspells, and enfeebling was no where near maxed.

Enspells use Enhancing magic, not enfeebling.

[Takelli]

I didn't catch that typo. I was typing too many things at once, I meant to use enhancing not enfeebling.

[Queen Uma]

Another useful sub people always neglect to mention is rng. It gives you a nice acc bonus at level 20 (10 sub) also Sharpshot really helps you land those acid bolts, assuming you have marksmanship capped.

Anyway as Armando said /war is pretty much king for drk until usually 60. Sam offers Hasso at 50 but you're missing out on the main benefits of sam sub before 60. Also drk/thf only comes into its own after 66 when you get Spinning Slash. Take it from someone that has levelled drk on numerous characters mage subs are entirely situational and shouldn't really be used for xp, dynamis etc.

[Malacite]

3 general-purpose subs;

DRK/WAR for general ass-kicking goodness and for zerg fights (assuming 5/5 Desperate Blows)

DRK/SAM for WS abuse, arguably less damage potential /WAR (depends on what you're using it for I suppose but I've had a lot of 75 DRK's swear by /WAR for more power). Mainly for abusing haste & TP.

DRK/THF for Greatsword abuse 66+. Very useful at HNMs etc (or anything you absolutely do not want to pull hate at)


Situational subs;

- BST for soloing (highly dependent on actual BST level)
- WHM also for soloing, works wonders from 1-20
- RNG (only for levels 20-29 really for the accuracy boost)
- NIN for battles/missions where you absolutely need shadows (CoP 6-4 comes to mind)
- DNC again for solo/campaign.

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Malacite

DRK/WAR for general ass-kicking goodness and for zerg fights (assuming 5/5 Desperate Blows)

If zerging, wouldn't /SAM for Hasso and Meditate or /DRG for Wyvern Earring, Jump, and High Jump be better?

[Malacite]

read my post again. I suppose I should clarify that by zerg I mean dead in 2 minutes >.>

[Icemage]

If you absolutely positively feel like you must nuke as a DRK, please for the love of god sub Scholar so you can at least not completely embarass yourself with Dark Arts. Even then, it's not really going to be a good selling point (though at 37+, 10% faster recast on Stun can be useful in some rare situations).

For general level up party situations, /SAM (once you get access to Hasso), /NIN (burn parties and pretty much no other time unless for some bizarre reason you are pulling), or /WAR (your default go-to sub) are the way to go.

Endgame/75 discussion here:
Generally speaking, DRK/DRG kicks all kinds of huge damage out in those rare instances when you need to pump out damage in a hurry. DRK/SAM tends to be used a bit more for zerging, particularly in more extended fights and/or when you're spamming TP moves with a kraken club (though NOT if you're blood weapon / souleater zerging with a kclub). Sometimes (rarely) /NIN in cases like Dynamis or when fighting things that have nasty blinkable AoE.

If you're doing something where you need to plant some hate on a tank ("traditional" XP party, certain endgame NMs), then - and only then - would you bring DRK/THF to the table, and only at level 60+.


Icemage

[Malacite]

DRK can't actually cap haste from equipment without /DRG or Apocalypse making /SAM the better choice if it's more haste you want. (21% max with W. Turban, Dusk Gloves +1, V Belt, Homam Legs & Hands and Hasso will give you 10 haste vs 5 from wyvern earring.)

If you're a K Club owner then it's /WAR all the way for Souleater + Blood Weapon. Bergressor + High HP = win since desperate blows 5/5 caps you on JA haste (and you can't hasso anyway). /DRG works too for capped haste & jumps, though I think jumping increases the delay ever so slightly between attacks? (might not seem like a big deal but it can be when you're swinging super-fast and want to get in as many hits as u can) Not 100% sure on the increased delay but whenever I SAM/DRG it seems like it does.