[Celeal]

On the other hand, Hasso and Seigan from /SAM penalize spell recast timer. Stun, Drain, Drain II, Drain Spikes, Absorb-TP, Absorb-ACC, Aspir, etc... are great stuff that comes with DRK, besides raw damage.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Originally Posted by Armando

Do all of what? Pop two JAs and a spell?

Upon inspection, /SAM does beat /WAR in terms of max damage potential.

/WAR offers
*Double Attack full time (10% DoT and TP gain speed)
*Berserk 3/5ths of the time (+25% Attack)
*Defender for when things get ugly.

/SAM offers
*Hasso full time (+10% Haste = +11-13% DPS and TP gain speed | +10 Accuracy = +5% DPS and TP gain speed | +5 STR = +1 DMG and +4 Attack)
*Store TP II - this ensures you shave off a hit needed to 100 TP. With a 528 delay Scythe, this means going from 6 hits to 5 hits for 100 TP if your WS lands. That's a 20% increase in WS frequency.
*Meditate every 3 minutes.

I'm doubting that a DRK/SAM could use its max potential with a NIN tank though. The NIN would have to be whipping out a lot of damage, and that's not something you can rely on any more than you can expect your PLDs not to be retards and carry Haubergeons and Sushi.

Look, some of the time, people suck at PLD and tanking. People suck at NIN and tanking. Sometimes when someone builds a TP burn-esque party and use two SAMS and everyone subs NIN, the SAMs won't tank right with Hasso.

I'll add even further onto that. The SELRWSopottomuses that subbed WAR back in the day made DRK look really stupid to the general populace and so a stigma formed. Then suddenly, people would invite a DRK to party and ban the DRK from using Souleater. I can't tell you how many parties I've joined where the DRK just stood like a big moron going missmissmisshitmissstunGUILLOTINE 230dmg.

And this was all because the WHM and Healers would freak out when a DRK suddenly went to orange or red. It slowed down XP gain, pissed off the healers, which annoys the rest of the pt, cuz they had to wait their asses around getting that party for 3 hours to begin with.

I mean, I don't know what universe you live in, but it's not always easy to get pts together that work well on a consistent basis, let alone ask people to coordinate a situation to coop together in party. Most of the time, people want to mindlessly spam. I can't fault them. It's their game play. But a good amount of time, you can't get ppl to coop with you. Maybe you're able to over in Candyland.

Thus, why I said the only coolest way to play DRK is to sub /NIN. Cuz, having the ability to tank your own SoulEater is the perfect marriage of job abilities without having to rely on some putz to voke or cover you.


'Course, I agree with you also; you're going to be in those sweet situations where everyone knows what the fck their doing and bam, you get to sub /WAR and do big numbers. Though, I remember testing it and i was doing maybe a couple hundred damage more which didn't outweight the cons to me of having the paper defense of Berserk and Last Resort. But HAY ur doing BEEGDAMAJ!


The funnest time I had with DRK was in the 60's when I had most of my best skillset at my disposal.

It was just a freaking blast.

Later, when you hit LV70 and /SAM really comes into play, you now have Meditate, giving you the potential to do 3 WS'es in a row.

But the great thing about /SAM is you get a 5 hit TP set up. You're constantly in a process of busting out WS'es. It's a really great thing.

[Armando]

I'm not saying most PLDs (or, well, people in general) aren't retards. I'm saying even retards can pop Sentinel. This isn't rocket science.

Party is forming.
"Hay PLD guy, could you use Sentinel + Provoke when I use Souleater?"
Outcome 1: "Sure."
Sub /SAM or /WAR.
Outcome 2: "No thx."
Proceed to take a pot shot at his skills, some underhanded comment like "Guess you won't be tanking through Souleater. /NIN it is." If he doesn't get offended, go /NIN. If he gets offended and wants to prove what little tanking e-peenery one can have just to one-up you, you can probably go /SAM.

Conclusion: It's possible to figure out if your tank is a retard before you even leave town. Who'd have thought?

[IfritnoItazura]

Sentinel won't necessarily keep the DRK from getting pummeled; if the DRK is well geared, even a Sentinel + Provoke won't be able to hold the critter from the kind of damage output a full length Souleater can add especially if there is a Guillotine at the start of the SE. At least, not for long; while the Provoke spike VE with Sentinel is a lot more enmity than SE's 1300, it will decay while the DRK continue to gain huge amount of VE and CE with every hit. (Coordinating with DRK so Sentinel + Provoke + Flash are all up before SE is used? I suppose it's possible...)

On the other hand, you have the idiots who use Berserk, Last Resort, and Souleater all in 2.5 seconds and follow up a Guillotine... It's best to just let those die.

From my experience, the majority of Souleater full-time DRKs didn't seem to bother to check if healers (and PLD) have MP, and wouldn't click off SE until deep in red HP (if at all), and about half of the "buff my WS" DRKs tend to combine Last Resort with Souleater whenever they can in exp parties--then use Stun when the critter turn on them.

The two populations can overlap at times, too.

[Armando]

The DRK's hate will be decaying at the same rate as the PLD's, so saying that the PLD's hate will decay while the DRK's rises is misleading.

At Level 60, vs a Lv.68 IT target, the DRK would have to do at least 700 damage to topple the PLD's hate lead from Sentinel + Provoke + Flash, assuming the DRK was already tied for hate (which shouldn't be the case; the DRK should be close but not literally tied.) If the PLD tosses the DRK a Cure III to help recover from Souleater while Sentinel is active, that's another 300 points of damage the DRK has to do. The window could be extended further with a WS but I wouldn't expect THAT much out of a pick-up PLD.

It'll take time for the DRK to cross the line. By the time he does, he'll have put a very large dent on the mob all by himself, and the two-three DDs should have done a reasonable amount of damage to the mob as well. If the mob hasn't dropped dead yet somehow, all it takes is Cover.

The idea has every bit as much merit as the DRK going /NIN. /NIN buys 6 attack rounds. The PLD should be able to buy that much time too (assuming he agreed to cooperate.) More if it's a good one but let's not get carried away here.

[IfritnoItazura]

Hmm. I'd like to think of myself as not that bad of a PLD, but against well geared DRK at Lv.70 or 72, Sentinel + Provoke + Flash bought about 20 seconds after Souleater+Guillotine if SE is left on after. (At Lv.75 on /NIN, Sentinel + Flash certainly didn't do much vs. SE+Guillotine in merit parties. lol.)

*shrug* It's been a long time, though; memory could be faulty. In any case, it's a great idea to remind PLDs that they should save Sentinel for when the DRK uses Souleater. Unless they need it for an early WAR Rampage/Raging Rush, a SAM going SC back to back, etc.

Or, try staff the rest of the DD slots with BST/NIN's with jug pets--they are trouble free, so the PLD can focus on keeping the DRK alive.

[Armando]

I'd like to think of myself as not that bad of a PLD, but against well geared DRK at Lv.70 or 72, Sentinel + Provoke + Flash bought about 20 seconds after Souleater+Guillotine if SE is left on after.

That's almost 6 attack rounds, so yeah. When I said a "good Paladin" can buy more time, I meant taking additional measures (e.g. applying Cover, or having a WS ready to use during Sentinel.)

Hell just the fact that you held it for 20 seconds competing not just against the Souleater damage but also a WS is pretty significant.

[IfritnoItazura]

Well, ideally, locking down the monster for a full minute to let DRK completely utilize SE would be better (if the curing resources allow it--the perfect use of Souleater is to convert MP into damage output anyway). Just that after that first 20 seconds, Provoke and Flash may not turn the critter back. Cover is actually fairly short in duration, and most DDs don't swing behind me, forcing me to waste precious time trying to squeeze between the monster and them.

* * *

Note to DRKs and other DDs; ducking behind a PLD is a great way to let him know that you may need Cover or other help soon. PLD gets Cover at Lv.35; enjoy.

[Armando]

Cover duration isn't that long, but it's still an extra 15 seconds (and in this situation you already have knowledge that the mob will turn to the DRK eventually beforehand, so you can position pre-emptively.) By that point you should have both Provoke and Flash back, and Flash will buy another 12 secs.