[Armando]

I still believe it does not make sense for a TP-heavy driven job like DNC does not have rank A skill for weapon.... TP gain is the core and the method of TP gain is handicapped.

DNC gets Acc Bonus II which adds +18 Accuracy. That puts their net Acc on the same level as an A+. Besides, since TP gain is the core and main focus of the job, DNCs can afford to go all-out on TP gain, where other DDs would lose too much damage from those gear/sub choices.

I wouldn't know if they have enough TP to deal with whatever duties are expected of them in endgame but it doesn't look like they're handicapped in the Acc department to me.

[Celeal]

Originally Posted by Armando

DNC gets Acc Bonus II which adds +18 Accuracy. That puts their net Acc on the same level as an A+. Besides, since TP gain is the core and main focus of the job, DNCs can afford to go all-out on TP gain, where other DDs would lose too much damage from those gear/sub choices.

I wouldn't know if they have enough TP to deal with whatever duties are expected of them in endgame but it doesn't look like they're handicapped in the Acc department to me.

Are you saying in practice DNC melee acc+ is higher WAR's Axe (A-), BLU's Sword (A-), NIN's Katana (A-) ?

[Ellipses]

According to the wiki, Accuracy Bonus II is actually +22 Accuracy total, which would make a 60+ DNC's dagger accuracy better than an A+ weapon, no? (B+ at 75 is 256, +22 = 278. A+ at 75 is 276.)

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by Ellipses

According to the wiki, Accuracy Bonus II is actually +22 Accuracy total, which would make a 60+ DNC's dagger accuracy better than an A+ weapon, no? (B+ at 75 is 256, +22 = 278. A+ at 75 is 276.)

By this logic, Rangers are better Dagger-users than Dancers. And Axe-users. And Cross/bow-users. And Sword-users; heck, by that logic, they have more Accuracy with a Sword than us Red Mages do (and not even mentioning the much more Accuracy in Daggers mentioned earlier)!

[sedant]

It sounds like he is saying the dancers are going to connect hits like a person with an A skill, but do damage like a person with a B skill. So by no means they are "better" than a person with a higher native skill.

[Ellipses]

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

By this logic, Rangers are better Dagger-users than Dancers. And Axe-users. And Cross/bow-users. And Sword-users; heck, by that logic, they have more Accuracy with a Sword than us Red Mages do (and not even mentioning the much more Accuracy in Daggers mentioned earlier)!

Thus why it was a question. I've noticed I left out the 0.9-over-200 part, but that still leaves DNC ahead of a raw A+ (272 vs. 268) on simple Accuracy. If there's something I'm missing, enlighten away.

I would hope a Ranger uses an Axe better than a Dancer.

And yes, Attack would obviously still be a B, and gear selection is what it is, etc.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

By this logic, Rangers are better Dagger-users than Dancers. And Axe-users. And Cross/bow-users. And Sword-users; heck, by that logic, they have more Accuracy with a Sword than us Red Mages do (and not even mentioning the much more Accuracy in Daggers mentioned earlier)!

Correct.

Now you see why the RNG positioning thing was so much needed. Well, they lacked the gear to give their Fransiscas that Warrior punch, but they hit hard enough to get tp between shots.

Better example: This is why Kraken RNG worked (works? A lot of RNGs don't seem detracted from firing in the melee but I don't know the details).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Lmnop

Correct.

Now you see why the RNG positioning thing was so much needed. Well, they lacked the gear to give their Fransiscas that Warrior punch, but they hit hard enough to get tp between shots.

Better example: This is why Kraken RNG worked (works? A lot of RNGs don't seem detracted from firing in the melee but I don't know the details).

The reason RNGs aren't detracted is because they do more than well enough on accuracy to eat meat and the updated ranged formulas are a bit more forgiving about where you stand if you've got enough accuracy and attack going for you.

Also, KC or Ridill most commonly paired with a Gun for RNGs. The ideal gun range is just outside of melee range, so clearly a RNG with multi-hit wouldn't have much to lose by being in melee range. Its also why COR melee works so beautifully with Joyeuse with /RNG in play or even /DNC.

Only real downside is the cost to RNGs and CORs in terms of gil, the range for guns is forgiving but the price of bullets is not.

[VZX]

I have DNC75. The only events I have done where I (and other people) can say "DNC? Awesome!" is some of the Assaults (Lebros Supplies, Building Bridges, Imperial Treasure Retrieval especially). Most of the time if I can find a spot for DNC in PT, I can find another job that can perform the same or better than DNC.

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

By this logic, Rangers are better Dagger-users than Dancers. And Axe-users. And Cross/bow-users. And Sword-users; heck, by that logic, they have more Accuracy with a Sword than us Red Mages do (and not even mentioning the much more Accuracy in Daggers mentioned earlier)!

If they didn't wear -acc/+racc all the time, then yes, they would get faster TP meleeing than some melees would (although they'd wind up lacking in ATK, especially compared to jobs with attack boosting traits/abilities like DRK or WAR; also, this analysis doesn't count Absorb-ACC, Aggressor, Focus and Hasso, let alone Double/Triple Attack, Jumps, Store TP or Meditate. Standing there and swinging isn't the only option available for melee jobs.) Of course if your main hand weapon is an Archer's Knife using that TP for a melee weaponskill isn't recommended. XD

This isn't noticed much partly because of that -melee stats/+ranged stats gear (including gimpy melee weapons wielded for their +ranged stats), and partly because they're even *more* powerful shooting things, their JAs are all oriented toward shooting things, and distance also gives them a couple seconds for someone to re-grab hate before the low HP, low defense, low evasion guy starts tanking.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

After giving it a bit of thought, I think I'm going to take Dancer all the way after all. I need a good solo job and if I end up putting merits into dagger for this, that means I'll have those merits and Marksmanship merits to use toward THF. DNC would see moments in Dynamis, Limbus and Nyzul at least.

I'd be hunting down a Raparee Harness for either job, anyway. THF is another good solo job anyway and I'd have ammo to spare from my RNG. Pity THFs can't use Holy Bolts, but I'll get over it.