All i see is /Nin...

[Ervesa]

Okay, i've been in two parties so far that didnt like my choice in sub and im a 34Dnc/Drg atempting to get a couple more pices of hast gear. and i've had two parties completely complain about me having /Drg. now i wasnt kicked from eather party because i beleave i was doing my job better than they must have expected and the ldr liked me. but it still confuses me why people still think that /Nin is "The bomb" as one person said in defence (Note, DW was there only comeback to my string of reasons to /Drg). I am truly confused on this issue and was wondering what you people think. Because i refuse to /Ninja for any job i do and it hasnt effected my performance in parties.

My Server is Seraph just incase that effects it.

[Ellipses]

Because i refuse to /Ninja for any job i do and it hasnt effected my performance in parties.

I'm not saying /NIN is better than /DRG at that level, or that there's room for complaint about your choice there, but this isn't a very good argument. If you refuse to try it, you don't really know what it would or wouldn't do to your overall usefulness in any given party. Much like a WAR who flatly refuses to use a greataxe (or dual axes, etc.) never sees its advantages.

But the reasons for people using /NIN are the same as they are with every other melee job that uses it: Dual Wield, Utsusemi, lack of earth-shattering advantages to other subs, and habit. The first two can be pretty good reasons (depending on weapon/food/gear choice, and how often you get hate and how problematic it is when you do), the third can go either way, the fourth isn't so great.

[Zempten]

At that lvl your barely have any haste gear, the only thing that comes to mind is 5% from the earring that's activated by your /DRG. You probably won't see another piece till 50s (swift/speed/velocity belt) and then at 70s (dusk).

/DRG only gives you DD and Healer potential
/NIN gives you DD, Healer, and semi-tank potential at that lvl

I went /NIN for DNC so filling up the rest of the PT slots were easiar. Also using as least MP/TP for curing was the hugest factor in me going /NIN. Plus I could use the extra accuracy bonus on a dagger for sub so I could continue safetly eatting meat for DDing. Most importantly though . . .it was so I didn't die from Curing Waltz spam when I needed it and everyone else in the PT decided to so conviently(sp?) forget they have provoke.

[Icemage]

I'm rather perplexed about why people sub NIN on Dancer at all. It's not like Dancer damage output is so huge that Dual Wield will tangibly improve the party's damage potential, and you don't get any extra TP out of the bargain either.

In that sense, /DRG is a better bet. Personally, I think /SAM is an even better bet than /DRG once you get access to Meditate/Third Eye.


Icemage

[Kailea]

I would agree.... but if I sub anything other then NIN I get nothing as far as invites -.- and I like subing NIN when I solo.... so I am stuck with it for now

now where /NIN shines, some what anyway is when you hit 70-73 and go Dagger/Sword with Behemoth Knife +1/Joyeuse and equip a Suppanomimi and even maybe a Fortitude Torque

this will give you Dualweild II and a 12 point boost in sword

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm rather perplexed about why people sub NIN on Dancer at all. It's not like Dancer damage output is so huge that Dual Wield will tangibly improve the party's damage potential, and you don't get any extra TP out of the bargain either.

In that sense, /DRG is a better bet. Personally, I think /SAM is an even better bet than /DRG once you get access to Meditate/Third Eye.


Icemage

People sub /NIN because people are overcuring pansies who eventually get hit or wannabe tanks, that's really all there is to it. You'd have to use a Rajas Ring just to get back the TP you initially lose from DWs. Even when I'm soloing, I hardly find myself recasting shadows because not getting hit and topping off my HP is rather counter-productive to using Drain Samba.

I've not been terribly impressed with the DNCs that go /DRG, really. Yeah, I know its subbing for the latent of Wyvern Earring at 30+, but DNC gets so many Haste options already. Jump for TP isn't really that great, particularly when /SAM could probably given you that same TP return in few swings.

But until you hit 60, there's really nothing better to sub before /SAM than /NIN or /DRG, I suppose. I've gone /NIN to this point pretty much because low level PT dynamic are shot or I'm just soloing and not partying to start with. 60+ I'm going /SAM and never looking back, but would consider /WAR at times as well.

[Silent Howler]

Dual Wield and Utsusemi were my two reasons for going /NIN. I started with Mercenary Knives so the added +2 accuracy was helpful. And I guess you could say I'm less afraid to cure when I have Utsusemi. Usually with White Mage I hesitate to use Curaga, but with Dancer I am entirely willing to use Divine Waltz. Often times it is very cost efficient but it does draw hate. /DRG doesn't offer any protection against that, except at level 70 with High Jump to shed enmity.

[IfritnoItazura]

You'd have to use a Rajas Ring just to get back the TP you initially lose from DWs.

Um, no.

We had a recent discussion on DW for BLU/NIN; Dual Wield doesn't reduce TP gain, as a general rule.

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

So, the statement "Dual Wield gives no better TP gain" is technically false. How about "Dual Wield's improvement to TP gain is negligible"? Is that better?

That should be it. It's slightly better, but in no way worse.

Obviously that doesn't apply to multi-hit weapons, but that's not a factor at OP's level.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Um, no.

We had a recent discussion on DW for BLU/NIN; Dual Wield doesn't reduce TP gain, as a general rule.

Then explain this:

• Single Weilding with no Rajas nets me 10% TP for two attacks.
• Dual Weilding with no Rajas nets me 9% when using identical daggers when both swings hit.
• Dual Weilding with Rajas and the same two daggers gives me 10% TP.

So either you're wrong or you're telling me I'm imagining the effect of Store TP +5 putting me at 10% on two hits of DW and only imagining I was getting 9% before while DWing.

I'm going with "you're wrong."

Also, you're basing your discussion on BLU/NIN. Totally different job with totally different weapons. The TP returned on DW two scmitars might very well be negligible difference. That job isn't going to notice the decimals on the way to 100%, DNC is going to be counting them because its TP is put toward a much more altruistic purpose.

[IfritnoItazura]

Name the weapons, then, so we can do the math.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Name the weapons, then, so we can do the math.

When I put on Raja's DWing as /NIN, I instantly matched what i was getting single-wield from two swings without Rajas, is that so hard to understand? You think I'm just making up the difference between the first 29 levels and the last 14?

Windurtian Knives, as if it matters.

The Store TP +5 alone put me back at or near what I had lost from DWing on /NIN.

[little ninja]

I'm sick of seeing all these posts talking about /nin. Its the times now, so get used to it.

[Silent Howler]

Riiight like Dancers have been around for very long, and already they are getting thrown into the /NIN norm. Not like people gave it a chance to try anything else.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Well its the same as any of the newer jobs really, I mean how many BLUs and CORs do you not see subbing /NIN. /NIN isn't that great for PTs for either of those jobs, people sub /NIN (or in COR's case, also /WHM) because they're too goddamn lazy to level the other, more proper subjobs for PTs (like COR/RNG or BLU/THF)

Since /NIN is passable for those jobs, they go with what they have, which is always a poor approach to levelling any job.

When the stats hit the paper for DNC, most intelligent people saw that /SAM would be the best all-around subjob and that WAR, DRG and /NIN would also have a place with it. There were a lot of kooks running around Alla babbling that "DNC will be like BRD, DNC will sub /WHM."

Never happened, largely because they were looking at other RPG's perspective on DNC and not FF's.

DNC has always been the direct opposite of a BRD, DNC in FFXI is not only the opposite of a BRD, but now a healer to boot. DNC thrives on TP so what better subjob that the king of TP gain?

[BurningPanther]

I'm sick of seeing all these posts talking about /nin. Its the times now, so get used to it.

That's a horrible attitude to have.

Did it ever occur to you that the overuse of said sub might indicate an imbalance? Just maybe?

You're essentially asking people to shut their mouths about a flaw, just on the argument that "it's the way things are now."