I think the notion of RDM/DNC and BRD/DNC are somewhat misguided applications of dancer, in fact, I think the benefits of /DNC look to benefit but a handful of jobs and maybe no more than a handful.
The problem with Mage/DNC (for the sake of arguments, lets just lump BRD in with "mage" for the moment) is that caster-based jobs tend to be very centered on... well.. casting. The more you cast, the less opportunities you have to melee and gain TP.
There's really no way to play a dedicated RDM or BRD without casting and that's where /DNC is going to hurt.
But what jobs can gain TP and not lose a lot by subbing /DNC?
First to spring to mind are our ToA jobs. All have have some degree of support functions, all melee. COR is not a slouch when it comes to TP gain and /DNC's Accuracy bonus will help a little the melee and ranged side, a COR/DNC would be giving up weaponskill damage to just TP but otherwise play full support.
However, I see this as rather limited if you're going to TP with guns. High delay is counterproductive to healing, having subbed /mage and mixed it with gunplay you can kind of see why melee-minded CORs loathe mage subs. So a COR/DNC would have to give up ranged attacks in favor or direct melee and would probably best be served by a weapon such as Mercurial Kris or Joyeuse to be really practical. This combo still does allow for heavy Quick Draw use, though.
BLU melees, needs MP for magic. Against mage mobs Aspir Samba would be useful, especially with Auto Refresh activated. BLU would have to hold back on melee WS, but considering that most of thier damage comes from physical magic, that's not too much of an issue.
PUP already has an automation for curing, PUPs generally melee for TP and thier WS aren't the strongest out there (no offense, but its true). /DNC would add to a healing function and AoE cures the automation lacks, though /WHM would be more reliable for taking care of status ailments in some cases.
PLD/DNC I've recently seen in action. Its impressive. Its probably not practical until you have Animated Flourish and the first AoE Cure, but once you do, you have extra hate tools via TP based Cures and you get to ease up on MP usage to save it for things like Flash. My girlfriend tried this combo out and it was like she turned into a Taru PLD, which are frickin energizer bunny PLDs to start with. I couldn't pry hate off her for the life of me (of course, I wasn't on RNG at the time, so I'll have to try as that later, muahahaha). This sub could be very well be the answer to PLD's endurance issues. It's probably the best combo of the pack I've seen.
I think NIN/DNC might have potential as well. This combo would most likely allow NIN to fulfill all roles (tank or DD as /WAR, support as /DNC).
Now I'm not saying /DNC forever with NIN. I'm just saying if you need a healer and all you can find are DDs then this might prove useful to get the party started off instead of waiting hrs for a random healer to showup (and then you have to worry about if they are good or not T.T). Also this combo might not work at all lvls. I would assume around 60+.
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Re: A more practical look at /DNC
Don't forget that Dancer has that Animated Flourish "Provoke" of theirs. Meaning, we may very well see many more Ninja dancing around than expected.
Kind of reminds me of Naruto.
Yellow Mage and Armando the Sig 3
Originally Posted by IM
Armando: Joyeuse makes for some delicious farming.
Armando: I should start coming /BLU for pure power.
Yellow Mage: Which sub gives you huge power?
Armando: That would be /WAR.
Yellow Mage: Ah, I see.
Yellow Mage: Would /Galka give you thick fat? XD
Armando: Yes, unless it's a Galka DNC, then it has a chance at having own tempo.
Armando: In Soviet Russia, L Cancels you.
Yellow Mage: Smashing like it's 1999.
Brawlers to the end.
I'd like to see some testing done comparing any differences between 1 and 2 finisher flourishes. I imagine it would increase the potency, I doubt to as much as a standard 'voke but better to some degree.
I don't see /DNC anything useful at all beside the "free" sneak/invisible that can get by magic aggro mob (but i wouldn't use that in ToAU if i were you).
The 2 debuff for DNC are way way way too weak (for low level at least i notice). I did not notice a significance improvement until lv.4 or 5. (i don't know about the magic resistence one yet...not 40)
While i never do find drain or aspir mambas even any use (@least for low level, i don't even brother to use it anymore... i got complains for the graphic itself being annoying and cause daziness.)
The cost of Healing waltz (erase) is high as well and the recast rate (won't be affected by haste or fastcast) are too long to keep anyone survived.
/DNC might be useful to solo EP (or even DC) for higher level that use 2 hander but i don't see it being useful other then the "free" sneak/invisible.
Not to mention, Animated flouish CAN miss... will you put your lifes on a "provoke" that can miss? i don't think so.
P.S btw funny you mention Pld/dnc... I don't know about you but that pld will have alot trouble keeping hate in an experience party since in most cases most pld/war already can't keep up with the hate with provoke...now you use a less emity ability that miss and can't be use all the time (let's not forget..you get 1 finishing move on a super highly low acc attack that occur every 15 sec) While you also lose /war ability (double atk). It would be wise just stick with a RDM in the pt then /dnc in my option.
I don't see /DNC anything useful at all beside the "free" sneak/invisible that can get by magic aggro mob (but i wouldn't use that in ToAU if i were you).
The 2 debuff for DNC are way way way too weak (for low level at least i notice). I did not notice a significance improvement until lv.4 or 5. (i don't know about the magic resistence one yet...not 40)
While i never do find drain or aspir mambas even any use (@least for low level, i don't even brother to use it anymore... i got complains for the graphic itself being annoying and cause daziness.)
The cost of Healing waltz (erase) is high as well and the recast rate (won't be affected by haste or fastcast) are too long to keep anyone survived.
/DNC might be useful to solo EP (or even DC) for higher level that use 2 hander but i don't see it being useful other then the "free" sneak/invisible.
Not to mention, Animated flouish CAN miss... will you put your lifes on a "provoke" that can miss? i don't think so.
P.S btw funny you mention Pld/dnc... I don't know about you but that pld will have alot trouble keeping hate in an experience party since in most cases most pld/war already can't keep up with the hate with provoke...now you use a less emity ability that miss and can't be use all the time (let's not forget..you get 1 finishing move on a super highly low acc attack that occur every 15 sec) While you also lose /war ability (double atk). It would be wise just stick with a RDM in the pt then /dnc in my option.
Is there any data or proof that indicates Animated Flouish has less hate than Provoke O.o?
I find the main reason I use Steps is for FM (Finishing Moves).
People who complain about graphics being sooo annoying and especially to the point that they get dizzy should consider turning them off.
Where did you get this idea that Animated Flourish can miss? It hasn't missed for me in 25 lvls, but I've yet to seen or heard about it missing from my other friends leveling DNC. Are you thinking of Desperate Flourish? I had a PT last night at East Alepta Desert against Goblins and in my PT I was dual tanking with a WAR/NIN. After every provoke of his in the beginning I could immediately take back hate with Animated Flourish (it was always with 2 Finishing Move, not 1). However, I couldn't take back hate after his Sturmwind with just Animated Flourish. I believe this to be b/c of the amount of DMG he dealt was too great for Animated Flourish to take effect. I also asked him for one mob not to use any WS just to test things out. I could bounce hate back with him for that entire fight. I'd like to see some proof that Animated Flourish is weaker too though, but right now I'll say it's about the same.
PLD/WAR couldn't even hold hate in the beginning anyways. Any DD knows they can rip it off when they really want to (Sentinel will help, but that's only like once in 5 mins). I think what Omgwtfbbqkitten was referring to is it's potential to be like a curebot. With MP cures and TP cures, PLD/DNC could heal with TP while waiting for their MP to refresh (3MP/tick with Sanction) and occassionally throwing in a Flash.
Is there any data or proof that indicates Animated Flouish has less hate than Provoke O.o?
Save your breath and just take the "Wrong" that precedes "feifong" as a hint.
Regardless of how much enmity Animated Flourish generates, it cannot be denied that these AoE Cures draw lots of enmity if you're allowed to cure with them. PLD has not had viable access to the kind of enmity an AoE Cure could generate without it costing them MP. By the cost of TP being there and using steps, PLD doesn't always have to turn to a high tier cure or Flash to generate enmity now.
I had a party from 30-33 (Galka WAR/MNK) with three Dancers (2 /NIN and 1 /DRG), who went from 32ish-35ish. There was a NIN tank, so I was there to DD, and thus ate rice dumplings and kept Berserk up as often as possible. Granted that the NIN wasn't really doing his job and there was the level gap, but...
The three Dancers were pulling and holding hate constantly. Even in fights where I'd spam Boost. Even against the PL who had to drop tons of cures because there were freaking Dancers grabbing hate. This is when they weren't trying.
Once the NIN DCed I started full-time tanking, and was able to hold hate for the most part, but I couldn't back down at all. They were all three jumpy spinny little enmity machines when they really wanted to be.
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