[BLADEnCURSE]

We have all seen it or experienced it... your ingredients cost more than the item sells for or takes so long to farm you deem it better to earn gil in another fashsion. I propose crafted items should have a set minimum within the auction-house of at least the cost of the ingredients including the crystal used and a profit margin added in dependent on the syth level. Why...to eliminate undercutiting and steady the flow gil. Spread the wealth so to speak(Obama-lingo)I'm a lvl 70 cook and it pained me on the rise to 70 with the profit loss I had to incur, though expected, and that I still face. Some may disagree, but all points of view are welcome to help me improve this situation...
p.s.
How the h#!! do you get new syth combinations without someone showing mercy and telling you???

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by BLADEnCURSE

We have all seen it or experienced it... your ingredients cost more than the item sells for

So don't make those items.

[BLADEnCURSE]

"don't make those items"... scoff'... to eliminate the need of avoiding the creation of these items is the purpose of the post...

[Durahansolo]

Originally Posted by BLADEnCURSE

How the h#!! do you get new syth combinations without someone showing mercy and telling you???

If you're talking about things that are added after updates and such, the only real way is to scour the internet forums to see what people have dug up. Data Mine the update to see what was added and then take a educated guess as to what is in it, or just wait until somebody uploads it on ffxiclopedia. When new stuff is added, it is only popular for about 2 weeks, so you can cash in if you are one of the first to figure it out, however by the time everybody knows the recipe the price is already 1/4 of what it was.

[BLADEnCURSE]

Originally Posted by Durahansolo

If you're talking about things that are added after updates and such, the only real way is to scour the internet forums to see what people have dug up. Data Mine the update to see what was added and then take a educated guess as to what is in it, or just wait until somebody uploads it on ffxiclopedia. When new stuff is added, it is only popular for about 2 weeks, so you can cash in if you are one of the first to figure it out, however by the time everybody knows the recipe the price is already 1/4 of what it was.

I thought it was leaked information from SE...To guess the correct combination would seem simple for simple syths ,but still daunting, but for some that would be rather far fetched...no?

[Durahansolo]

Originally Posted by BLADEnCURSE

I thought it was leaked information from SE...To guess the correct combination would seem simple for simple syths ,but still daunting, but for some that would be rather far fetched...no?

Could possibly be leaked info, but sometimes weeks go by after a update and crafts are still being found. If you check on ffxiclopedia, there is plenty of stuff that was data mined from the update, but since nobody has found all the recipes yet they have nothing. It'd be nice if SE would release all the synths and recipes when they update, but they hate us.

Originally Posted by BLADEnCURSE

"don't make those items"... scoff' to eliminate the need of avoiding the creation of these items is the purpose of the post...

I think Mhurron might've meant to buy them instead of making them since they are cheaper. Most of the time with crafting, the ingredients cost more so its either cheaper to buy them from NPC/AH or farm them if you can. The guy with 100 Coooking can HQ1-3 some ingredient that you might need, depending on the item level, so it will always cost more for you to make it since he can make it easily. For example, I have cooking 63, back in the day it was cheaper to farm beehive chip and honey than to buy them from the AH. With 63 cooking, I can take those chips I farm and turn them into profit since I can HQ them at a decent rate at that level. However, If I was a lower cap ner cooking 11, it'd be almost impossible for me to HQ and I'd make little or no profit. I also have level 81 alchemy, so I'll send myself the honey I crafted and turn it into echo drops, if I had mid or low level alchemy, I'd make little or no profit especially if I bought the chips.

Crafting is like the stock market, one day you are at the top of your game, and the next day is Black Tuesday and need a Stimulus check from the Archduke to stay afloat.

[Armando]

Crafting is an investment. They're not going to give you 100 skill on a silver platter.

Make money. Find the cheapest/most efficient path to 100. Make money off of the high level synths other people can't do. Sometimes you can even make money off of low level synths.

[Ellipses]

Can't you just go to the guild and ask the NPCs there for recipes until you see new ones?

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by Durahansolo

I think Mhurron might've meant to buy them instead of making them since they are cheaper.

There is that, but also had in mind that if you're skilling up on a recipe that costs more then the result sells for, for the most part, you're doing it wrong.

The only time that makes any sense is if your dead set on blowing threw some crafting levels by skilling on something that sells ungodly fast. However in order to do that you already need to have a whole lot of gil on hand and really shouldn't be complaining about losses.

[Lmnop]

What you suggest defeats the purpose of a player-run economy.

My friend plays Age of Conan... thing.

He was saying something about some item that has too much in circulation so the GMs themselves are purchasing masses of it every time it goes up for sale. So people are making tons of money off the GMs and in turn, inflation is running rampant.

In other words: direct involvement in the economy tends to create a collapse.

This idea would give even more power to sellers. And the AH already plays more for the seller than the buyer.

[Feba]

Originally Posted by Mhurron

People, be less stupid

Yes, Mhurron.

[Lunaryn]

The crafting economy even when it has been at its more functional is generally predicated on the notion that creating end-products is usually inherently lossy. There are two main reasons why at most crafting levels, crafting is performed at a loss:

1) Improvements in crafting skill have value, i.e. people are willing to pay for them

2) In most instances, High Quality results have value, and as High Quality results are rare, production volume has a value to the crafter in improving the chances of achieving a High Quality result (there are a few distinct exceptions where only the NQ is valuable, hence the new HQ-suppressing crafting gear).

Crafting for profit is usually predicated on an assumption of maxed skill. Hence the HQ profit vs. NQ loss ratio is predicated around the HQ rates achievable by someone with maxed skill. Crafters who are skilling thus cannot expect to profit on those recipies, except by way of increased skill. Instead, lower skill crafters sell not to seek profit, but to decrease loss.

The key difference, where you will find your few low-skill profit opportunities, are either where demand has spiked hugely (e.g. post-update runs on items that suddenly have a new use), or where there is no High Quality result possible. For most of the economic history of the game Poison Potion was the key low-skill Alchemy profit synth, since it had a direct use by players (preventing Sleep), could be made at fairly low skill, and could not be HQed. However, the economy has been fairly soft after rampant deflation, and last I checked this synth still looked break even at best... It has been some months since I last checked, however.

[BLADEnCURSE]

Hmmmmm. I see so those mainly agaist the idea are older , veteran, players. Indeed any change in a system that is well known is going to make bete players, or from the start players, very twitcy. But change can be good...

[Mhurron]

Originally Posted by BLADEnCURSE

Hmmmmm. I see so those mainly agaist the idea are older , veteran, players. Indeed any change in a system that is well known is going to make bete players, or from the start players, very twitcy. But change can be good...

Dismissing opinions that differ from your own based on something unrelated to the original post simply shows your refusal to think beyond the end of your own nose.

Changing the very core something is rarely a good idea unless that core is horribly broken. The player run economy is not.

I have Alchemy at lvl78 and WW at 60. I level crafts very very slowly; I refuse to take losses on the way because I can't afford it. If you are taking losses, make better decisions as to what you skill up on.

[Ellipses]

Originally Posted by BLADEnCURSE

Hmmmmm. I see so those mainly agaist the idea are older , veteran, players. Indeed any change in a system that is well known is going to make bete players, or from the start players, very twitcy. But change can be good...

Change can also be awful.

So what do you think would happen if they implemented this? Somehow players would continue buying all those suddenly-more-expensive crafted goods at the same rate they're buying them now? Would the increased income break even across crafts, so that you'd still be able to afford all the things you need to buy? Where is all this gil going to come from to keep things buying and selling at the same rate? Increased NPC prices and mob drops and all those other things that are so easy for RMT to exploit? How do you handle the massive inflation that would generate?

Or do we just accept the massive stagnation of the player economy caused by sudden spikes in prices without anything to balance that out?

I'm not trying to argue this idea would never work (I don't think it would, but for the sake of argument...). But I don't think it could be successfully implemented on its own, without other changes to balance the economy. What accompanying changes do you propose?