[sevenpointflaw]

The long rant about directional synthing...

As I'm plowing through the silk road (that is, gathering materials to make Hunter's Cotton), I decided that directional synthing is just a wive's tale. Okay, so I have an opinion, whoop-dee-doo, right?

Here's the thing. I look at the game and the thigns that we know affect it. Moon phase, day of the week, direction faced. All of these supposedly affect crafting (and some of them affect other things as well.)

Brakki made the suggestion in his dragoon guide's thread that BLM that don't face the direction of thier element when casting are somehow negligent in thier duties, so I went out for the shere purpose of being able to say "I tested it myself" and spent a lot of time casting spells in various directions.

There was less than a 1% varience in spell damage, cure power, etc. No difference in how much Stoneskin absorbed, sneak and invis were just as random as ever, and frankly it was a pointless excersise other than to say "I did it."

By the same token, there is a noticable, documentable, marked difference when casting spells on various days. This has been tested, proven, retested, and reproven so many times its rediculous. And the day/moon thing carries over to many other documentable and documented aspects of the game.

But nowhere else other than crafting does the idea of direction come into play. It's my personal opinion that SE is not so asanine about game mechanics that they would add one "elemental effect" to crafting that they didn't add to everything else - especially when you take into account that every other "elemental effect" is fairly well global.

Please forgive my long winded ramblings, I can never say anything to the point, but I'm getting there, I promise.

Anyhow, after a lot of reasearch, I can see exactly where the idea of directional synthing comes from. Speak to a Tarutaru in Windurst, and he'll show you a star chart.

If you ignore what the star chart actually looks like, and base your directional synthing entirely, and purely off the way the map is labeled, then you come up with very familiar crafting compass. That is, traveling North, North East, East, South East, South, South West, West, North West, you get Dark, Light, Ice, Wind, Earth, Lightning, Water, and Fire respectively.

What originally sparked my curiousity in all this, however, is that the star-chart does not follow a normal map's labeling. That is, North is the top of the map, South is the bottom of the map. But East is the left side of the map, and West is the right side of the map. Again, if you follow the lables of the map, this matches up with the directional synthing.

So the question that nagged me was WTF? How is it that directional synthing is based off a map that is mislabled? I can only assume that someone went outside at night and looked at the sky, and actually faced the stars as they appear on the map, and realized that the map was in fact labeled correctly even if it is shown "backwards."

I've attached a copy of the in game star chat for those who are unfamiliar with what it looks like.

As I write this, my own curiosity has me standing out in Eastern Altepa Desert atop a particularly high dune where the night sky is visible as far as the eye can see. Assuming the double earth weather goes away and I can make out the sky through the dust clouds.

Edit: There were dust storms all night. I didn't get a good view, and I can't think of anywhere else that offers such a clear view of the sky. Has anyone else personally gone out and compared the stars in the sky to the crafting compass or star chart?

Edit: Day two standing out in Altepa, and sure enough, the map is labeled correct. Facing the direction according to the actual labels shows the stars where you would expect them.

Continuing with my rambles, it occurs to me that the only way to settle this issue really is to break down, bite the bullet, and suffer though outrageous ammounts of lost gil to get an answer.

So that's what I'm going to do. Before I do it though, I want to come up with a game plan. I want to start fairly general (basicly, less controlled) and see if some generalized trens can be established to support one theory or the other, and that's why I'm here.

The idea to test it, and how...

No, I don't have test results, yet. At least, nothing other than "it seems to be this way if you do this..." just like everyone else. I want help coming up with things that we know affect the game, and for those interested in actually working out game mechanics (Icemage, are you out there?) I would love to have input on any variables that I may have missed.

So, what are the variables in question? Here's what I can come up with off the top of my head, some of which have been proven, some of which have been theorized, some of which are just plain silly if you ask me.

1.) Cardinal Direction Stong/Neutral/Weak Against Element
2.) Day of the Week Strong/Neutral/Weak Against Element
3.) Wheather Effects Strong/Neutral/Weak Against Element
4.) HQ Elemental Staves Strong/Neutral/Weak Against Element
5.) Phase of the Moon Strong/Neutral/Weak against Craft
6.) Moghancements for Craft/Desynth/Element

I don't think I've missed any, but please, if anyone can think of other variables, proven, disproven, known to affect other things, whatever, please let me know.

Starting with item 1. This is what I am trying to disprove, and may ultimately end up proving; we will come back to this in a moment.

Item 2 is fairly believable, if you ask me, if only because this is documented already to affect many things in the game; an affect that can be easily reporoduced by anyone with spare time. Because of this, I am going to assume for now that this affects crafting, and will consequently conduct all my tests on neutral days to the crystal I am using.

Item 3 is also resonably believable because it can be documented to affect other aspects of the game. However, this is also the absolute easiest variable to control as anyone who wants to can avoid wheather simply by crafting within the confines of a city. As such, no tests will be down outside of a city.

Item 4 is as equally controlable of a variable, and as such I will solve the problem by having no equipment on during the course of my tests. This is to eliminate not only the possible affects of the HQ Elemental Staves, but also any undocumented hidden affects of Guild Point items.

Item 5 is going to be a pain in the butt, honestly. This is going to have to dictate when the tests can be done. Since it is fairly well established that Full and New moons affect crafting the most, I will be testing directional synthing during Half-Moon phases, which should be the neutral phase. Further more, there are two Half Moons in a given lunar cycle, allowing for more chances to crank out synths.

Item 6 is, again, easy to control. If I have the inventory space to do it, I will be muling off all my extra stored items and removing all furnature from my moghouse to eleminate all moghancements. If I don't have the inventory space, I will be setting my moghouse to Moghancement Experience, which should have no affect on synthing.

This brings us back to Item 1, directional synthing. I am going to start by establishing a control group. As stated before, using neutral days, at Half Moon Phase. I've chosen to craft facing North East as the control, which means no tests will be done with Light or Dark cyrstals.

Since we are talking crafting in general, I will begin the test with desynthasis, then move on to synthasis. The idea is to gather enough lightning clusters then head down to the Tenshodo to purchase and desynth 100 cotton Kyahans facing the control direction (NE) on a neutral day at half moon.

Once the control group is established, the test will be repeated facing South West, and then again facing South; the two directions that affect synthing results according to the theory of directional synthing.

Some of you may ask "Why start with desynthasis?" and it is a very good question considering that many people believe desynthasis follows slightly different rules than synthasis.

First, desynthing Cotton Kayhans or however it is spelled, is very easy to keep track of in terms of NQ, HQ, HQ2, and HQ3. It is one of the few clothcrafting recipies that actually have different results for all tiers. Secondly, it pays for itself, and then some, which means I won't be doing this test at a net loss to my wallet. Thirdly, it provides me with cotton, with which to test synthing itself.

With a recent aquisition of cotton thread, I will have the opportunity to move on to the second part of this test, which is Shinobi-Tabi. Unfortunately shinobi-tabi does not have an HQ3 that is different from HQ2. If anyone can think of any clothcraft item that is a synth and has all four tiers of successes, please let me know as I can't think of any stuitable ones to test with.

Either way, the test will be repeated (300 synths total), making shinobi-tabi facing a control direction (north east), south, and south east on a half moon during neutral days.

I have nothing but my hunch to go on, but as its my "theory" that directional synthing is bunk, I think we will see that there is not a noticable difference between directions.

I would like to point out that I have Clothcraft to 53. When I desynth Cotton Kayhans I have a wide range of NQ, HQ, and breaks. Likewise, when make shinobi-tabi, I have a wide range of NQ, HQ, and breaks. Since directional synthing supposedly affects NQ and HQ rates, I will be able to test those reasonably well.

Once I am done with this portion of the test, I will move on to testing directional synthing and skill ups. I will be doing the same test making Hunter Cotton under the same conditions as I plow my way through the silk road. This last and final test should fill in the gap of skillup rates in relation to directional synthing.

So... There you have my plan of action. What I want to do. I'm bored enough to do it. I have the funds for the first two tests, and the need to skill up for the third test. But before I actually do it, I would like feedback. What am I not taking into account? What am I forgetting? What can I do to make this test more reliable within reason? Does anyone else want to join in?

I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts.

--------------------
Crafting Results

(B) Breaks - Broke crystal, didn't loose materials
(L) Losses - Broke crystal and lost materials
(NQ) Normal Quality yield, successful synthasis/desynthasis
(HQ1) High Quality yield, successful synthasis/desynthasis
(HQ2) High Quality yield #2, successful synthasis/desynthasis
(HQ3) High Quality yield #3, successful synthasis/desynthasis

Craft Skill Clothcraft for all tests: 53
Equipment worn for all tests: None
Moghancement during all tests: Gardening

Iceday Control

Lightning Desynthasis of Cotton Kyahan
Directional Synth: North East

Total Desynths: 84
Total Successes: 34 (40.5%)
Total Failures: 51 (60.7%)

Total NQ: 12 (14.3%)
Total HQ1: 8 (9.5%)
Total HQ2: 8 (9.5%)
Total HQ3: 6 (7.1%)

Total Breaks: 19 (22.6%)
Total Losses: 32 (38.1%)

Test Data

Group 1 Moon First Quarter (48%)
Breaks: 3
Losses: 2

NQ: 1
HQ1: 1
HQ2: 1
HQ3: 0

Per-synth Breakdown: L, NQ, L, HQ2, HQ1, B, B, B

Group 2 Moon Last Quarter (57%)
Breaks: 9
Losses: 17

NQ: 8
HQ1: 6
HQ2: 7
HQ3: 3

Per-synth Breakdown: HQ3, L, L, B, HQ2, NQ, B, HQ2, HQ2, L, B, L, HQ1, NQ, B, L, L, HQ1, NQ, L, L, L, L, L, HQ1, NQ, B, L, HQ2, L, HQ, L, HQ2, B, L, B, L, NQ, HQ3,NQ, HQ1, HQ2, B, HQ2, HQ1, NQ, HQ3, B, HQ1, L

Group 3 Moon First Quater (48%)
Breaks: 7
Losses: 13

NQ: 3
HQ1: 1
HQ2: 0
HQ3: 3

Per-synth Breakdown: B, L, HQ3, L, L, HQ1, L, HQ3, B, NQ, B, L, HQ3, L, L, L, L, B, B, L, L, NQ, B, L, L, NQ, B

Lightningday Control

Lightning Desynthasis of Cotton Kyahan
Directional Synth: North East

Total Desynths: 78
Total Successes: 26 (33.3%)
Total Failures: 52 (66.7%)

Total NQ: 13 (16.7%)
Total HQ1: 4 (5.1%)
Total HQ2: 7 (8.8%)
Total HQ3: 2 (2.6%)

Total Breaks: 22 (28.2%)
Total Losses: 30 (38.5%)

Test Data

Group 1 Moon First Quarter (50%)
Breaks: 7
Losses: 10

NQ: 2
HQ1: 1
HQ2: 4
HQ3: 0

Per-synth Breakdown: HQ1, NQ, L, L, L, L, L, B, HQ2, B, HQ2, B, L, L, B, HQ2, B, L, L, B, HQ2, B, NQ, L

Group 2 Moon Last Quarter (55%)
Breaks: 15
Losses: 20

NQ: 11
HQ1: 3
HQ2: 3
HQ3: 2

Per-synth Breakdown:B, L, HQ3, L, B, HQ2, HQ2, HQ3, NQ, L, L, L, B, B, B, B, NQ, L, L, L, NQ, NQ, L, L, L, L, L, L, B, B, B, NQ, L, B, L, L, B, B, L, HQ1, NQ, B, HQ1, L, HQ1, NQ, HQ, B, NQ, NQ, HQ2, NQ, B, L

Lightsday Control

Lightning Desynthasis of Cotton Kyahan
Directional Synth: North East

Total Desynths: 43
Total Successes: 16 (37.2%)
Total Failures: 27 (62.8%)

Total NQ: 8 (18.6%)
Total HQ1: 6 (14.0%)
Total HQ2: 2 (4.7%)
Total HQ3: 0 (0.0%)

Total Breaks: 11 (25.6%)
Total Losses: 16 (37.2%)

Test Data

Group 1 Moon First Quarter (52%)
Breaks: 11
Losses: 16

NQ: 8
HQ1: 6
HQ2: 2
HQ3: 0

Per-synth Breakdown:
HQ1, B, L, NQ, B, NQ, L, B, L, HQ1, L, HQ1, L, HQ1, B, HQ1, B, L, B, L, NQ, HQ1, NQ, L, B, L, B, HQ2, L, NQ, L, NQ, B, B, B, L, HQ2, NQ, L, L, L, NQ, L

Windsday Control (Complete)

Lightning Desynthasis of Cotton Kyahan
Directional Synth: North East

Total Desynths: 100
Total Successes: 47 (47%)
Total Failures: 53 (53%)

Total NQ: 16 (16%)
Total HQ1:13 (13%)
Total HQ2: 14 (14%)
Total HQ3: 4 (4%)

Total Breaks: 17 (17%)
Total Losses: 36 (36%)

Test Data

Group 1 Moon Last Quarter (60%)
Breaks: 8
Losses: 19

NQ: 5
HQ1: 5
HQ2: 8
HQ3: 3

Per-synth Breakdown:
HQ2, L, B, L, HQ1, B, B, B, HQ2, B, HQ1, L, L, B, L, L, HQ1, NQ, HQ1, HQ2, HQ3, L, L, L, B, HQ3, HQ1, L, HQ2, L, L, HQ2, NQ, HQ3, L, HQ2, NQ, HQ2, NQ, B, L, NQ, L, L, NQ, L, HQ2, L, L

Group 2 Moon First Quater (45%)
Breaks: 9
Losses: 17

NQ: 11
HQ1: 8
HQ2: 6
HQ3: 1

Per-synth Breakdown:
NQ, L, NQ, B, L, HQ1, B, NQ, NQ, NQ, HQ1, HQ2, HQ2, NQ, L, HQ2, L, B, L, HQ1, HQ1, NQ, B, B, L, L, NQ, NQ, NQ, L, B, HQ3, L, HQ1, NQ, HQ1, HQ1, HQ2, L, L, L, B, L, HQ2, B, HQ1, L, B, HQ2, L, L, L

Watersday Control

Lightning Desynthasis of Cotton Kyahan
Directional Synth: North East

Total Desynths: 22
Total Successes: 6 (27.3%)
Total Failures: 16 (72.7%)

Total NQ: 1 (4.5%)
Total HQ1: 4 (18.2%)
Total HQ2: 0 (0.0%)
Total HQ3: 1 (4.5%)

Total Breaks: 7 (31.8%)
Total Losses: 9 (40.9%)

Test Data

Group 1 Moon First Quarter (43%)
Breaks: 7
Losses: 9

NQ: 1
HQ1: 4
HQ2: 0
HQ3: 1

Per-synth Breakdown:
L, NQ, HQ3, HQ1, HQ1, HQ1, B, L, B, HQ1, L, L, L, B, L, B, L, L, B, B, B, L

[Spinnthrift]

Good test to perform... thoughts on desynthing are that the results will be skewed as you get from my experiences an equal amount of HQ's to NQ's no matter how high above tier you are, and the most reliable you can get on average for success is around 50%

My last desynthing run was on leather belts - used 8 lightning clusters and made equal amounts of iron ingots vs sheep leather... where iron ingots are HQ2+3, vs NQ + HQ1 of leather.

Will be an interesting test, although I always the the FFXI Crafting Timer was a worthwhile aid.

I wait the results with interest.

- Saeriel.

#edit# I'm not saying it won't be a worthwhile aid (as it still has the day/week/moon stuff) anymore.. just won't be as good as I originally thought... although it has definately helped me during my levels.

[sevenpointflaw]

Its also occured to me that desynthing seems highly random, but since its the cheapest way for me to get cotton and thus make shinobi-tabi, I might as well do the test on desynths as well. I don't want to go broke doing this, after all.

I also remembered after I wrote the basic idea down that there isn't a "half moon" phase in FFXI. The 50% phase falls on Quarter Moons waxing and waining which only gives a few hours within which to get the testing done. Looks like I'm going to be setting my schedule around this test for a while. On the upshot, I have a seven hour window today to do testing during the times I will be home and awake.

[Spinnthrift]

Oh - and thanks for the tip about desynthing cotton kyahan... wouldn't have looked at that as a desynth until now... (I've been looking for cotton thread of late but don't want to pay 20k at stack for it).

[sevenpointflaw]

Hehe. With cotton prices up as high as 35k a stack, its a quick way to make money. Even when prices are cheap, I was getting seven stacks of cotton on new moon with an investment of about 50k. Have to be careful though. Its easy to get overzelous and flood the market.

[Spinnthrift]

I wasn't planning to sell them, but use them to craft up myself with stuff... I have 53 Cloth too, and using that to help get materials for Leather/Bone...

The prices on your place suck even fiercer than mine. ><

[Myaku]

My personal belief is that it is not as simple as a direction faced. I think that it is more complicated than that - I theorize that it is a direction faced on certain day, the combination of elelments, like a Skillchain almost. While I have collected a large ammmount of data, I have not performed a systematic test to prove or disprove, though it is an eventual goal of mine. I look forward to hearing your findings.

[sevenpointflaw]

As an aside, I'm considering replacing the Hunter's Cotton test with Linen Doublet's. Flax flowers are a dime a dozen, and at my skill level I think that limiting the skillup test to items that I am within 5 levels of (so that skillups occur on breaks) would ultimately be more accurate of a test.

Double Post Edited:

Originally Posted by Myaku

My personal belief is that it is not as simple as a direction faced. I think that it is more complicated than that - I theorize that it is a direction faced on certain day, the combination of elelments, like a Skillchain almost. While I have collected a large ammmount of data, I have not performed a systematic test to prove or disprove, though it is an eventual goal of mine. I look forward to hearing your findings.

Well, I personally don't believe that direction affects anything, but I agree there are many variables involved, which is why I'm trying to control as many of them as possible. Originally I thought limiting myself to specific moon phases would drag the test out from weeks to months, but I didn't realize the phase I choose is a seven hour window practicly every other day.

I'm going out farming for crystals as soon as I finish muling, and I'll start the first bout of testing sometime around 2pm local time. I hope to have at least the control test done today (funds allowing), possibly even more depending on how fast I can liquidate the assests I obtain.

[Taskmage]

Originally Posted by sevenpointflaw

What originally sparked my curiousity in all this, however, is that the star-chart does not follow a normal map's labeling. That is, North is the top of the map, South is the bottom of the map. But East is the left side of the map, and West is the right side of the map. Again, if you follow the lables of the map, this matches up with the directional synthing.

So the question that nagged me was WTF? How is it that directional synthing is based off a map that is mislabled? I can only assume that someone went outside at night and looked at the sky, and actually faced the stars as they appear on the map, and realized that the map was in fact labeled correctly even if it is shown "backwards."

The map isn't mislabeled, it's drawn as if you were facing south and looked straight up at the zenith of the sky. North will be above you, south below you, east to your left, and west to your right.

[Myaku]

Oh, one quick note - don't forget about the HQ Tiers(11, 31, 51) in your tests. Recipes in different skill tiers will give you different HQ %s.

[sevenpointflaw]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

The map isn't mislabeled, it's drawn as if you were facing south and looked straight up at the zenith of the sky. North will be above you, south below you, east to your left, and west to your right.

Ah, well. I failed astronomy. I thought it might have something to do with something... astronomy-ish... but I am clueless when it comes to such things. That certainly explains it though Thank you.

Double Post Edited:

Originally Posted by Myaku

Oh, one quick note - don't forget about the HQ Tiers in your tests. Recipes in different skill tiers will give you different HQ %s.

While this is true, as long as my skill level doesn't change while I perform the tests (at least until I do the skill-up test) then the HQ% will be the same within each testing set. In short, it won't matter. I'm high enough to HQ on both the desynth and the synth, and if HQ are affected by changing direction that should show up in the numbers.

[kiffkin]

Still absorbing most of this - will have a think about it.

BTW, one way to understand the star map directions is to imagine holding it above your head and face down (i.e. looking up at it). I've seen real star maps that are designed to be used this way.

[sevenpointflaw]

Got it all sorted out in my head now Trying to figure out why it looked "wrong" was just what led me to be curious in the first place. Granted, it ultimately has nothing what-so-ever to do with whether or not directional synthing is a wives tale or a tangable mechanic.

Either way, I've got 10 lightning clusters, fixing to get about two or three more, and when 1:30 rolls around local time, I start work. Hopefully I can get the first hundred done before dynamis starts tonight...

[sevenpointflaw]

Ok, so there isn't much intersting there yet, but I'm about 1/10 the way through the control group. I have to wait for prices on cotton kyahan to go down, cause between this and crafting for profit, i've managed to buy out the tenshodo several days now. Gonna check other guild vendor. If prices low there, I'll keep going and post more tonight.

[Neomage]

1/10th of the way through? geez... oh well, I wish you luck. I never belived directional synthing, but whats the hurt of taking .5 seconds to do it anyway?