[Mezlo]

Do you think it would be ok to offhand a MK and swing it a couple times in an exp pt to help gain tp for slug shot? Or do you think you'd just be looked as as "off" for feeding tp to the mob. I'm not talking about a full on melee session. Just a few swings, then off to start phantom roll cycles / pulling.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'd actually sell the MK so you can live easier and persue a Joyeuse.

If the mob is too high, the low DMG off MK is going to rear its ugly head and you'll be hitting for zeros and gaining no TP. If you offhand, you'll be giving up one Archer's Knife or Trailer's Kukri to do it, making your ranged accuracy suffer, especially if you're /NIN.

DWing multi-hit weapons also actually slows down TP gain, diminishing the effect of MK. Single wield is the way to go with multi-hit, but if you single wield and try to pull off Slug Shot as /NIN, well, let's just say I don't fancy your chances of landing it often.

/RNG is recommended for things like MK, but Joyeuse is much better due to a higher damage rating. COR/RNG + Joytoy is much fun. Sell the MK, camp Joytoy at 70 and work on a Haste Build would be my recommendation for a COR serious about melee.

I understand /NIN if you're pulling, but if you're pulling and buffing and staging with Light Shot you're going to have very little time for melee anyway. Pulling can be done as /RNG even at that level and TPing with bullets is still better in the 50s and 60s than melee.

CORs start melee with Joyeuse at TP burn levels (Read: 72+) because we can't keep TP for Slugs up otherwise and we don't get enough Snapshot to keep up with the RNGs, so melee becomes a neccessity for DDing. Before 70, its not too difficult to keep up, so COR/RNG for TPing to slug and COR/NIN if you're pulling. If you're pulling as /NIN, there's not much worthwhile in meleeing for TP.

Finally, people who look at COR melee as "feeding the mob TP" know jackshit about COR. They think we're BRDs in a pirate outfit. Ignore them, if they kick you, it won't be long before another PT finds you anyway.

[Armando]

If the mob is too high, the low DMG off MK is going to rear its ugly head and you'll be hitting for zeros and gaining no TP.

False. With the exception of the Ceremonial Dagger trick/exploit, hitting for 0 is purely an Attack vs Defense issue that has practically nothing to do with weapon DMG. If you hit for 0's with a Mercurial Kris, you will with a Joyeuse too.

Carry on.

[Nuriko]

Actually, I could see the lower damage and rounding turning a low-damage hit from a Joytoy into a 0 for the MK ... but it's not going to be a huge issue.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Armando

False. With the exception of the Ceremonial Dagger trick/exploit, hitting for 0 is purely an Attack vs Defense issue that has practically nothing to do with weapon DMG. If you hit for 0's with a Mercurial Kris, you will with a Joyeuse too.

DMG was shorthand for "damage," like RNG is shorthand for ranged when it it should be "Ranger." The laziness of others is rubbing off on me.

The rest of what I said covers the attack vs. defense thing. MK isn't that hot on IT++, but might be all right on a T or VT colibri. Joyeuse will still do better overall damage, though. Plus its free.

[Malacite]

MK strikes me as a THF only weapon really (with both SA and TA merited to 50 seconds) and even then there's much better Daggers >_>

Go with the Joyeuse.


Side note: Why don't they just let DNC use that damn knife already? And give BLU Ridill to make up for the lulz that is Tizona >_>

[Aksannyi]

Originally Posted by Malacite

MK strikes me as a THF only weapon really

It's good for DRK zergs if you don't have Ridill.

[TheGrandMom]

Ya we use them for drk zergs and they work well.

So this is a question thats kind of about the topic, when you play COR should you be meleeing? Or is COR ranged attack onry? Or a mix?

(And you should definitely be doing rolls for your pt members, that much I know but have a COR that is a slacker.)

[Aksannyi]

I think it depends on the party and what you're fighting, as does everything. I see some COR melee full time and some just RA full time. Don't really know what's better. BBQ probably does. We have CORs on JoL, they parse closely to the RNGs, and they sure as hell don't melee.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

As I said before, COR melee comes into play when shooting is no longer a sufficient means of keeping up on TP. Meaning, a real TP burn PT. Not those silly little parties people call "TP burn" before the 70s, the real ones

Its very difficult to keep up with other melee at 70+ when Haste can't affect ranged attacks, SE saw fit to give RNGs thier own exclusive form of Haste through Snapshot and Velocity Shot, which is OK. COR has access to lots of Haste gear and two different multihit weapons. If you have those things, you don't really need Snapshot because all you'll use ammo for is WS.

Since COR doesn't have enough Snapshot gear and can't draw Velocity Shot from a RNG subjob (its a level 45 JA), they must turn to Haste and Haste gear and melee to keep up. There's the Barbut from SNM BCNM, the Commodore's hands from Dynamis and Jalzhan's Ring. So that's 6% Snapshot if you're in Salvage and 4% everywhere else. Its nice, but no where near as RNG can get it with full Snapshot Merits, the Barbut, Jalzhan's Ring and Velocity Shot.

So melee it is.

Before 72, when people can't cap out Haste, COR keeps up well enough just by shooting for TP. A lot of CORs try to skate around the expense of that by meleeing, but its not effective as effective at lower levels because bullets will return more TP per shot than knives will, not to mention they do more damage per hit than the knives would in a few swings.

That said, I have to say Ak's CORs are bullshitting her. There's simply no way CORs could keep up with RNGs there unless something was really wrong with the RNGs. Are these War Bow +1 RNGs with Scorpion Arrows? Even then, I have a hard time seeing a COR outparsing them.

4% Snapshot vs. a potential 29% on JoL? No contest. COR loses there, even as /WAR.

[Aksannyi]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

That said, I have to say Ak's CORs are bullshitting her. There's simply no way CORs could keep up with RNGs there unless something was really wrong with the RNGs. Are these War Bow +1 RNGs with Scorpion Arrows? Even then, I have a hard time seeing a COR outparsing them.

By keeping up, I should say, I mean they're not coming dead last, even against RNGs ... should not have said "keeping up." That's misleading. Typically we have a tank pt and 2 RNG pts on JoL, which is usually two parties consisting of: BRD, WHM, COR, RNG x3. One of our Corsairs has outparsed some of the RNGs, and our RNGs are pretty nicely geared. I guess with lucky rolls it can/does happen. I don't keep the parses myself, it's usually Stan, and he'll rattle off the percentages.

I guess it's not a matter of outparsing, but keeping up. Some of our RNGs are kinda overzealous with hate and end up dying, which I guess skews it a bit, but we have two really decked out CORs who hold their own quite well on JoL.

If I can get my hands on a parse one of these days I'll post it up.

[ShadowHolyFlyingDragon]

Do people ever use COR/NIN for post-70 successfully?

Seems if you dw JT/MK and have the appropriate haste gear, that would be a nice combo. (Suppa, Dusk eq, Wahl. Turban, Swift Belt.) I assume you'd eat sushi and macro in your racc gear for WS.

Seems like going this way would get your more tp return than just sw'ing JT.

However, I'm only LV55 right now and just got Slugshot and I'm like... dismayed that I'm only doing around 6-700 dmg per shot. My RNG was doing 1300 w/BRD + meat at this level, 1600 w/BRD+COR+meat. lol /cry ; ; I'll get over it, of course. Will I ever see 1k numbers? Maybe post 70 and BRD+COR I guess.........

Even having marks merits, I'm finding I'm having to eat sushi all the time. ; ; I should get tons of racc here pretty soon with all the right af and gear and such and maybe my COR can start eating meat again....

... course, I couldn't go /NIN then either lol

I'm so torn...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Dual Wielding Joytoy would slow down your overall TP gain. Single wield is much faster

From a damage-dealing standpoint, as many COR/NINs as you may see doing it, its crap. If you're going to sub /NIN at merit level, you better have a peacemaker and you better be helping with pulls because you will not be keeping up with COR/RNG or COR/WAR on damage and you offer less utility to a PT than COR/DNC or COR/WHM.

[Spider-Dan]

I find M.Kris to be extremely useful for COR/DNC.

While Joyeuse and M.Kris are roughly equal in damage output, M.Kris generates significantly more TP than Joyeuse does.

[Flanteus]

i'm using M.kris with /dnc started 2 days ago at level 70 ( capped )
before that I was /rng and many times I find my self WS'ing too much where I would hold my self until 150-200 tp , thats in normal exp parties, now i'm using this weapon with dancer sub and it seems very very good
I remember at some point maybe when I got hasted by RDM , I manage to spam Divine waltz ( Curaga ) whenever the cooldown is up and I have 0% haste gear ( still consider myself new to the game )

the only problem is that sometime without Chaos roll I hit for 0 and its very annoying to the point where i have to remove a bit of acc for atk or str ( does str help not getting 0 dmg? )

anyway, i'm planning to get joytoy ..which wont be any time soon