[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I don't mean to get off on a rant here, but its gotta be said. CORs that full-time the Luzaf's Ring are just as mentally retarded as BRDs that full-time a harp.

Look, I know some people face immense inventory limitations. If that's your problem, you picked the wrong job in COR (or BRD if you're rocking that one harp in your inventory). These are very gear intensive jobs if you want to play them right. Hell, that can be said of any job.

But full-timing that Luzaf's Ring says "I just don't care." You don't care about achieving a four buff cycle on the PT. Maybe you think you've done your part if you've hit everyone with Evoker's and Corsair's Roll, but you haven't. If you have frontline MP users you should be considering a DNC subjob so you don't have to worry about hitting the frontline with Evoker's at all. BRD got Pianissimo and that's nice, there's no way they could make such an ability work with COR. Aspir Samba is our best bet if the PT is lacking a DNC.

OK, so with the DNC subjob and having Aspir Samba under sub, this allows you to give the frontline melee buffs. They don't need mage buffs, they never needed mage buffs, I don't care how much that DRK or PLD cries, they have ways of getting MP these days, Aspir Samba is support enough for thier MP needs. Two buffs for the frontline, two for the back. Pretty easy to do.

Luzaf's Ring is really just for when you need to hit everyone with the same thing. Meaning, A manaburn PT. BLMs and SCHs are good COR buddies, they like the things COR can give them. COR is our best mage buffer in the game, hands down, with SCH coming in second there. BRD just has ballad, unless they have Gjallarhorn, they got nothin' on a COR.

But yeah, a BRD would use Harp when faced with a manaburn, so Luzaf's ring is applicable there, too. Any other time you're throwing on Luzaf's Ring should be when your PT is really raking in the EXP and has a BRD pulling. then we can tone down a four buff cycle to three and make one of those three buffs that Corsair's Roll.

Any other time you look like a moron for Luzaf's Ring on. You could be putting accuracy or ranged accuracy in that slot. I don't care if you're wearing it with COR relic. Most of the COR relic sucks, it just makes you look like a bigger twit. Hat and body were the only good things to come of it. Sure, snapshot on the hands is cute, but without more snapshot gear its kinda pointless. And really, if you can get relic and other Snapshot gear, but not Crimson Finger Gauntlets or Dusk Gloves, I have to wonder if you really give a damn about the job at all.

Of course, anything less than Steel Bullets at 75 with Luzaf's on is probably saying you don't care at all. Hey, I know they set the bar low for BRD, doesn't mean they set it low for COR, too.

Bottom Line: Luzaf's Ring is a macro piece for specialized situations and that's all its meant to be. If you can't grasp that, I don't know what else I should tell you about this job because you probably don't deserve to know.

[Rodin]

Yeah, lately with the new influx of players, I've been going "WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING?" about nine hundred million times since I got back. It's the same old shit too we worked so hard to change. NINs not using anything but Utsusemi (had one complain about how low his Ninjutsu Magic Skill was.) Paladins not curing themselves. People not having leveled subjobs. Etc. All the shit that was plaguing FFXI at NA release.


Also, it comes to bring up the whole argument (Which was brought up in a party I was in.)

"I pay to play this game so I'll play however I want, and if you don't like it, then GTFO."

Here's the answer to that question (the answer I gave him.)

"Everyone else pays to play this game as well. It's a game where you have to work as a team to get experience points. Pretty much everyone likes getting as much XP/hr as they can. So you can be a team player, or you can GTFO." (Leader promptly booted his ass.)

[Clever Ninja]

Hitting everyone with Evoker's is stupid, I wanna choke COR's I see do that(encountered it TWICE when leveling SAM from 55->60). Unless the party was like, PLD BLU DRK DRK RDM COR, and even then I'd be wary since in TAoU people are addicted to Colibri, and both DRK and BLU can just aspir their MP back.

Leveling my PLD this morning in East Ronfaure S, BRD was giving the whole PT Ballad. Mind you, I kept my back towards the mountain, and was in PERFECT position so he could Ballad only me and the RDM just fine. But no, he just ran in with a harp and gave it to everyone. I didn't mind as much, cause I still got my Ballad, but I'm sure the 4 melee's would have liked something other than Madrigal(except for the BLU we invited later, but he had to rest every once in awhile and saved till 300TP and stayed there the entire time, so obviously he was doing something wrong).

Edit;

Noticed I just posted and did nothing but rant and not contribute to the topic. Anyway, while it sucks, it's nothing new. It's like BLU's fulltiming Moldavite Earring when they aren't using Aspir or saving TP, RDM's using AF1 gloves in an xp party, SAM's not using Polearm on stuff weak to piercing, WAR's not using Great Axe after Raging Rush, BRD's being, well BRD's.

[Vevau]

Sounds like you got one of the BLU who never read what the spell description means when it says "XXX varies with TP"

And there is some chance of this maybe getting on track now...

[LilithAngel]

Actually, it's probably the BLU misinterpreting "XYZ Effect varies with TP" as them thinking they need to hold the TP for the effect, when it's really just when it's used with Chain Affinity.

[Auro]

Originally Posted by Clever Ninja

Hitting everyone with Evoker's is stupid, I wanna choke COR's I see do that(encountered it TWICE when leveling SAM from 55->60). Unless the party was like, PLD BLU DRK DRK RDM COR, and even then I'd be wary since in TAoU people are addicted to Colibri, and both DRK and BLU can just aspir their MP back.

Leveling my PLD this morning in East Ronfaure S, BRD was giving the whole PT Ballad. Mind you, I kept my back towards the mountain, and was in PERFECT position so he could Ballad only me and the RDM just fine. But no, he just ran in with a harp and gave it to everyone. I didn't mind as much, cause I still got my Ballad, but I'm sure the 4 melee's would have liked something other than Madrigal(except for the BLU we invited later, but he had to rest every once in awhile and saved till 300TP and stayed there the entire time, so obviously he was doing something wrong).

Edit;

Noticed I just posted and did nothing but rant and not contribute to the topic. Anyway, while it sucks, it's nothing new. It's like BLU's fulltiming Moldavite Earring when they aren't using Aspir or saving TP, RDM's using AF1 gloves in an xp party, SAM's not using Polearm on stuff weak to piercing, WAR's not using Great Axe after Raging Rush, BRD's being, well BRD's.

Man... when I leveled bard you had to ballad the mages + pld without pianissimo (and without windower) >.>

Maybe the culprit is gear swaps macros... Every time I watch FFXI videos on youtube, I'm totally shocked at how few people seem to use Macros. Yes, having several full sets of gear, it can be very annoying to write out macros for them, but damn, suck it up, you only have to do it once (for each system you play on)

[MrMageo]

Wow COR's and BRD"s give out evokers and ballad on your servers lucky.

I wouldn't care what they wear as long as I am getting reliable buffs (which never happens). I find it sad people don't care about doing their job the best they can, but I guess its what ToAU brought us, everyone just does enough to get by.

/DNC offers a nice boost I would agree, however you think people who full time a ring will be able to afford the gear to even hit an exp mob. COR is in a similar boat as RDM when it comes to melee in the sense it takes a lot of gear and merits to consistently hit the mob, thus receiving the effects from /DNC. I know this is a rant, but If anyone takes this as advice, if your going COR/DNC you need about +40 ACC and sushi.

I hate when people complain about inventory issues and try to make it out as a big excuse to not have something. This is why I only level jobs that share a lot of gear and merits, yet there are people who have 5-6 jobs and too much RE/EX gear. Best advice to that stop leveling so many jobs. I don't feel there is an excuse to cite inv. as an issue, it is just a cop out for laziness.

[Kuro]

If i had it I'd only ever use it in dynamis where I need to buff mages who seem bent on avoiding my rolls. I'm allways in the mage only party so fine by my (note, COR + mage only dynamis pt = coma induceing boredom!)

[MrMageo]

in dyna RDM + Mage party = stress induced aneurysm COR and BRD have it easy with AoE rolls and songs.

But in general dyna is boring to everyone I think.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by MrMageo

I wouldn't care what they wear as long as I am getting reliable buffs (which never happens).

Saying things like "I don't care what they do so long as I get X" is EXACTLY why it happens. People read that, think they only have to do the bare minimum and trot out to give you said bare minimum.

Problem with many CORs I think is that there are three problematic parties within the job. Two save time, the third is a sub-category known as the "level 22 bullet COR" I rant about those guys a lot, but a level 50 bullet COR isn't any better at 75. If you're going to shoot, melee and WS in a PT gimping your main form of damage for both WS and Quick Draw is not the way to go. Upgrade your bullets and guns as soon as you can. If you can't afford it, COR isn't the job for you. Simple as that.

Group A thinks its like a RNG, so they sub /NIN. RNGs sub /NIN for Utsusemi and the highest possible Ranged accuracy. Guess what? COR doesn't have one Accuracy Bonus trait to its name, RNG gets four. A COR/RNG at 60+ will have more natural ranged accuracy standing naked than a COR/NIN. Hell, I'll let that COR/NIN have both archer's knives equipped. COR/RNG will still have a slight edge on accuracy and then he'll push that edge further when he equips his Archer's Knife./

Group A thinks you're supposed to melee with your knives. Reality Check: Only if your subbing /DNC for Aspir Samba support on the front line. I don't care what you say about it being faster TP gain to melee, you're wrong and just being an epic cheapass. Bullets will return more TP per hit and do more damage. Bullets appropriate for your level on the damage end, anyway. When you have a Joyeuse, then we can talk about meleeing for TP.

Group A in thier heat of thier epic archer's knife melee tends to forget the same thing proponents of RDM melee for get - Oh yeah, we're supposed to buff the party, too right.

This is probably because they come from melee jobs and, subbing /NIN, think COR is a straight up melee that sometimes buffs the party. No you buff the party very much akin to a BRD, only you do it once a minute as opposed to multiple times a minute like a BRD would. This is due to the recast on Phantom Roll, nothing more.

Ultimately, a COR that forgets to buff his party has failed his party, no matter how impressive his melee ends up being.

Group B thinks COR is like a BRD, so /NIN are /WHM is all they need to sub since that's what BRDs do. I won't get into ranting about /WHM, but I think its a better sub than /NIN in general for COR because it offers more useful things to the party and all /NIN gives COR is self protection and half-assed accuracy. I just don't like the lack of compatibility between our small MP pool and having to give up part of my MP regain for a full minute. Having a gun, you will not see me resting for MP in a ToA zone, period. I will use that gun, regardless of sub so I sub something for the gun.

And really, if everything hinges on a COR's MP (or BRD's, for that matter) the party you built sucked from the outset.

COR/WHMs may achieve the full buff cycle since they tend to play more like a BRD, but sometimes even they fall into the RDM melee trap, this time remembering to shoot and maybe even cure, but forgetting to buff. Ususally, they succeed in buffing, though, so people turn a blind eye to what buffs they're getting. So long as that dice icon is over their head, they think they have what they need, many won't even bother to check.

Hence, why I cringe at the "I don't care what they do so long as they give me X" statement. What's great for your PLD isn't that hot for the WAR, MNK or DRG standing next to them.

I played BRD and RNG to 75 before i finished COR to 75. I was able to find the middle ground between the melee and the buffing because I had experience with the responsibilities of those jobs. COR has the responsibilities of both jobs. Its not a BRD that melees or a RNG that buffs, it melees and it buffs. Stay on those buffs every minute of the party. Yeah, you'll lose out a little melee damage, but those are the breaks, you'll still have plenty of time to fire off bullets, that's most likely why COR even gets that minute long Phantom Roll Recast anyway.

/DNC offers a nice boost I would agree, however you think people who full time a ring will be able to afford the gear to even hit an exp mob. COR is in a similar boat as RDM when it comes to melee in the sense it takes a lot of gear and merits to consistently hit the mob, thus receiving the effects from /DNC. I know this is a rant, but If anyone takes this as advice, if your going COR/DNC you need about +40 ACC and sushi.

If they have the /DNC sub, at 60+ they'll have one accuracy bonus trait. COR AF feet, head and body offer ranged accuracy. Bone-type rings are so dirt cheap its not even funny and bone-type rings give +ranged accuracy. Pre-endgame, your best hand and leg pieces are Jaridah to go with that AF. Drone earrings are passable and Spectacles are cheap. You can at least afford an NQ Amemet Mantle and some kind of HQ R.K. Belt will do you until you can get a better accuracy or ranged accuracy piece.

An endgame COR is going to have greater accuracy needs, the same accuracy needs as a melee RDM, more or less. Subbing /RNG or /DNC will give them a good start, from there, things like Rajas, sniper, ecphoria ring are good finger gear. Wahlra turban, Dusk Gloves, Dusk Ledelsians and Swift belt will help with haste. Paluwhan gear from assault will help with ranged accuracy too. some of this stuff is free and just requires a bit of effort.

/RNG or /DNC, with sushi, I never have a problem hitting a mob, even with the slightly lower sword skill compared to RDM. I have the accuracy gear to cover the spread.

[TheGrandMom]

Originally Posted by MrMageo

in dyna RDM + Mage party = stress induced aneurysm COR and BRD have it easy with AoE rolls and songs.

But in general dyna is boring to everyone I think.

Not me, I've been doing Dynamis regularly since its release and I'm still not bored with it. The only piece I need is the rdm af2 hat and I've come to the conclusion that I'll never get one anyways. LOL I still attend Dynamis and help others in their quests for relic and don't mind one bit. Maybe its the medication....

I personally love being the rdm in the blm pt during Dynamis. I'm busy as hell and I LOVE IT! It's why I love rdm so much.......busy, busy, busy!

[Karinya]

Well, I've just gotten COR40 and I'm wondering if Luzaf's Ring is worth picking up at all (having just gained -8 inventory from Quick Draw).

What roll would I want to put on the whole damn party at once? Healer's and Evoker's only benefit heavy MP users, while melee stats rolls only benefit people who are making physical attacks. BLU is both, but that doesn't mean I get to put 4 rolls on them.

So far it's been my impression that if you want to put Corsair's Roll on anything after level 11 your party fails (or at least your camp does).

I guess there might be some BCNMs or something where you would want Magus on everyone because there's some dangerous source of aoe magic damage, but I don't really see it being worthwhile for normal parties even against something like goblins.

[Clever Ninja]

Originally Posted by LilithAngel

Actually, it's probably the BLU misinterpreting "XYZ Effect varies with TP" as them thinking they need to hold the TP for the effect, when it's really just when it's used with Chain Affinity.

Reading any Wiki on the effect of Chain Affinity, and prolly several, will pretty much say this. Which is why it astounds me why several BLU's still do it. When we hit level 40 he could have done an awesome Fusion skillchain, instead he'd just use Bludgeon whenever.

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by MrMageo

in dyna RDM + Mage party = stress induced aneurysm COR and BRD have it easy with AoE rolls and songs.

But in general dyna is boring to everyone I think.

ahh ha ha ha ha, NO.

I buff say 3 of the mages, then i have to buff the other 2 somehow, now instantly that halves someones buff, because unless i hit lucky on roll one i become worse than a bard straight.

Then if the other 2 aren't within range i have to fluke it. or know I'm probably gonna bust.

What usually happens when this happens is I'll get a lucky roll on 3 of them. Then I try to buff the other 2... and someone or all 3 will run in and loose their lucky. or get busted while i try to get as high as possible/risk it.

All the while when ever i fail I have to wait untill i can roll again before I can try again. With an elitist LS behind you, that's not fun.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Kuro

ahh ha ha ha ha, NO.

I buff say 3 of the mages, then i have to buff the other 2 somehow, now instantly that halves someones buff, because unless i hit lucky on roll one i become worse than a bard straight.

Then if the other 2 aren't within range i have to fluke it. or know I'm probably gonna bust.

What usually happens when this happens is I'll get a lucky roll on 3 of them. Then I try to buff the other 2... and someone or all 3 will run in and loose their lucky. or get busted while i try to get as high as possible/risk it.

All the while when ever i fail I have to wait untill i can roll again before I can try again. With an elitist LS behind you, that's not fun.

Maybe I was just lucky when I did endgame with my LS on Titan. I would do manaburn PTs with LS BLMs all the time and use Corsair's Roll (because, really, there's little better than that to roll in Manaburn aside from Evoker's since puddings are so weak to magic). This would induce the Pavlov's Dog effect on BLMs, they subconsciously would salivate when I rolled anything, associating me with EXP. So they never strayed that far off from my COR, even though there's really no EXP to be had in Dynamis, just EXP loss.

A possible solution to the issue you're facing is to perform what I call a "split" (Blackjack terminology, har har). Try to get a decent roll for the BLMs near you and the double up on the stragglers. If you got, say, a 5 on your good BLMs and then found the stragglers and they got a 7, the good BLMs would still retain thier 3 MP a tick while the ones that got a 7 get 2 MP a tick. It may not always be the optimal strategy, but sometimes you have no choice. Any MP refreshed is better than none in those scenarios.

Only other option is to say to hell with the stragglers, which I tend to do to BLMs who kite. Its not worth the time or effort to chase them down, if they're kiting they knew what they were getting into and should be able to manage themselves.