More Roll 'em, less Fold 'em? COR Group 2 Revisited

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

The update to Group 2s is pretty huge for any job. For COR, it seems to eliminate the chane's of busting almost completely. The lowest we could get Snake Eye and Fold down to previously was 10 minutes, now we can get either or both down to five or even the potential of achieving a 6 min, 40 second Phantom Roll duration with Winning Streak.

Loaded Deck's chance's or failure would be reduced by 50%, but given how little it actually fails with Random Deal, I'm inclined to just leave the one minute on it. I don't use Random Deal for much aside from when I see a RDM use DS/Covert (it always hits Covert since RD prioritizes main job JAs) and other people using their meritable JAs.

Busts are extremely rare since the addition of Snake Eye and maxing out Snake Eye would reduce the chances of busts dramatically. Almost so much that I don't see the need for Fold.

Almost.

So I'm thinking the best way to go about this is:

5/5 Snake Eye = 5 min recast on Snake Eye
1/5 Fold = 15 min recast on Fold
3/5 Winning Streak = 6 minute Phantom Roll duration
1/5 Loaded Deck = 10% failure reduction for Random Deal

The recast of Fold would be long, but given the amount of control Snake Eye would give you now, Fold would hardly ever be needed. You'd get to manipulate one out of every five Phantom Rolls. One Fold should be safe enough. I've never been one for playing it too safe on COR anyway. Want a sure thing? Bard is this way -->

I would love to have full Winning Streak, but I think this setup layout for merits lets you get the most out of Group 2. 5/5 for Fold would be extremely safe, but you'd have to give up anything Winning Streak or Loaded Deck offered or give up the chance to manipulate Rolls as much with Snake Eye.

Snake Eye has better uses, so it gets the 5/5. I'd usually say merits are about preference, but this seems like it would apply well to any COR in any situation.

[Malacite]

5/5 Winning Streak + Phantom Roll Recast would allow for a LOT of spare time between buffs.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Group 1 merits are the only merits that have any impact on Quick Draw, at the time I took them to 5/5 in accuracy and recast, we didn't have them at 1 min recast with two charges.

In time, most CORs I know of went the route I did because of these changes. I really just went with QD merits because it was one of our exclusive abilities, AoE buffs were not. And really, QDs are every bit as important as our rolls and Gods can be really resistant toward our QDs. The enfeebling boosts always land, still, its nice to get the most damage we can out of them.

More importantly, Quick Draw has a tendancy to bend some rules. Like magic resistance rules some RoZ/CoP mobs have - it will ignore them on things like Jailer of Temperence. It can get past Utsusemi shadows, very helpful when people get charmed since I can't AoE a sleep. Not to mention boosting status ailment effects and adding to my DoT. Or lining up mobs for TP burns, doesn't hurt that Colibri can't mimic Light Shot.

Phantom Roll Recast Merits don't really make buffs last longer, full PR recast just lets you roll ten seconds sooner. I'll take 3/5 Winning Streak to boost duration, but being able to manipulate the rolls more often is far more important than getting more time to DoT or play curebot.

[Malacite]

I didn't say it made them last longer. I said it gives you more time to do other things, but I see your point about QD.


@ lv 5 it will take you 3:20 to do a full buff cycle as opposed to 4 minutes, with each of those buffs lasting 6:40. That's more time for you to shoot your gun or what have you.
Probably only really ideal for meripo though.

[Kylen]

So I'm thinking the best way to go about this is:

5/5 Snake Eye = 5 min recast on Snake Eye
1/5 Fold = 15 min recast on Fold
3/5 Winning Streak = 6 minute Phantom Roll duration
1/5 Loaded Deck = 10% failure reduction for Random Deal

This is what I'll probably end up doing, too. With 5 minute Snake Eye, unlucky numbers will pretty much be a thing of the past. Still need 1 merit in Fold, though, since I'm not gonna waste Snake Eye on a VI or unlucky VII roll; I'd rather double up on those instead and take the risk of a bust.

I only have 1 merit in Winning Streak so far (currently 3/3 Snake Eye, 1 in each other category), but I've really noticed the extra flexibility that those 20 seconds gives me, especially in events like Nyzul and Salvage where it's easy to fall behind in my roll cycle when we're constantly running around and passing/lotting cells. Definitely looking forward to putting 2 more merits into that.

[WishMaster3K]

God Damnit, BBQ, That Snake-eye Winning Streak combination is made of WIN.

You continually inspire me to raise COR.

[Omni]

God Damnit, BBQ, That Snake-eye Winning Streak combination is made of WIN.

You continually inspire me to raise COR.

I thought that inspiration was because of me

*Que wind beneath my wings music*

[WishMaster3K]

I thought that inspiration was because of me

*Que wind beneath my wings music*

Na, you're the reason I wanna raise NIN.

[Demonwhisper]

Risking a bust willonly hurt ur PT thus, slowing down EXP if u bust in a PT with HQ players, say goodbye lol

[Kylen]

Risking a bust willonly hurt ur PT thus, slowing down EXP if u bust in a PT with HQ players, say goodbye lol

lol do u know how probability and expected values work lol

[Callisto]

I'm personally sitting at 3 Snake Eye, 2 Fold, and 1 LD...I'm debating between just going 5 Snake Eye/4 Fold, as much as that extra minute would be nice, the frequence at which I roll VI then double up into another VI is astounding at times(no exaggeration, at one point I rolled 7 straight VI's while sitting on a VI, I busted, Folded, double busted, logged out, logged back in and double busted again, then repeated one more time).

While I do focus my COR as a DD, keeping the average strength of my buffs as high as possible is still my #1 priority, and a lower Fold timer would buy me a bit more room to double up on VII and VIII.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

While I do focus my COR as a DD, keeping the average strength of my buffs as high as possible is still my #1 priority, and a lower Fold timer would buy me a bit more room to double up on VII and VIII.

3/3 Snake Eye merits really only let you manipulate one out of ten rolls, 5/5 now lets you manipulate one out of five. That's a 10% increase for the ability to manipulate your rolls 20% of the time.

Now, how often do those 6s and busts really come along? I'd 6s are more common, but depending on the roll, that's usually not a problem. A 6 would only be unlucky to Samurai, Magus and Scholar's Roll, a 7 would only be unlucky for Gallant's, Healer's and Dancer's Roll, none of which are extremely common in EXP or merit PTs. A 6 or 7 Evoker's is actually acceptable and landing the unlucky 9 would be extremely easy to get out of with Snake Eye, putting us at 10, which is just as good as the lucky 5 (3 MP a tick).

Additionally, having full Snake Eye would increase the viability of using most rolls. One of the initial problems people had with Snake Eye was the recast was so high most people just used it to tweak Evoker's, even after the adjustments to Phantom Rolls in the August 2007 update. Tweaking it down to 5 minutes gives us the opportunity to manipulate a lot more of the rolls we have, particularly the other 5/9 Rolls, which are some of the sickest ones we have.

Lowering Fold to mulligan for another roll is really just spending time trying for a better roll. That could come at the cost of a minute of no buffing. I'd much rather just be able to have that ace up my sleeve as often as possible with Snake Eye, which would lower the need to Fold at all by a wide margin.

[Callisto]

Oh, 5/5 Snake Eye is a given, it's Winning Streak that I'm debating between doing and ignoring if I drop Fold to level 1. I really do hit initial 6's ridiculously often(well not always initial, rather I roll something like 3 > 3 or 4 > 2, but it happens very often), and I probably use Chaos/Samurai most often as a combo, so that's mediocre + unlucky. I tend to double on 7's lately too just b/c of the mediocre value.

I would personally prefer to have 5 SE, 4 Fold, and 1 LD was what I was saying, to me it seems better to be able to manipulate your rolls to higher values more often than to be stuck with mediocre values for a longer amount of time, even though having that extra minute to melee would be really nice.

[Kylen]

I think you're arguing the wrong thing, BBQ - Callisto said he's thinking 5/5 Snake Eye, and putting the extra merits in Fold instead of Winning Streak.

Edit: oops, he beat me to the response

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Gah, I think my empty stomach is affecting my brain. I'm gonna go eat.