New Rolls

[Menelaus]

This Roll would probably be more usefull if you could stamp out previous rolls sooner. Making it possible to roll a quick regen while the puller is out or in the case of emergency healing required.

[Callisto]

At any rate, I'll try to test SCH roll this week, if anyone else has time to you're going to need a /mage sub and a shitload of free time. Your goal is basically to cast a bunch of spells and see how often Conserve MP activates, and calculate the % from there, I'd think you'd need a sample size of at least 500-1k casts for each roll both with and without a SCH.

I can hopefully get my DNC friend to help my cause and do campaign battles with me tonight and get the w/ DNC #'s after limbus if you guys won't have time.

[Zempten]

Yea, I'm disappointed in DNC's roll - not that I didn't see it comming but I guess hoping for like 50HP/tick would be WAYYYY too good to be true.

[Callisto]

Updated ffxiclo and BGWiki w/ what we have so far, do I need to be on the list of contributors to our wiki here or can I go ahead and plop that info in?

Edit: Ohshit nevermind, our wiki blocked by work filters lol, BBQ if you can do the honors...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm on COR duty with DiV's Wiki, just finally starting to be able to be oriented with Wiki duties here and learning the ropes on it. If you want to pass me the data along later, I'll put it in the drafts I'm compiling for the wiki. I'll credit those who bring me the data.

Additionally, since both BG and FFXI fail to have complete Phantom Roll data, it would be wonderful if could all find out data on the following:

Beast Roll
Puppet Roll
Warlock's Roll
Magus Roll

These are a bit more tricky for data. My hunch is that Beast and Puppet Rolls are comprable to thier Chaos and Hunter's Roll counterparts, but I've yet to see proof of it.

Note: If the others who've done the other COR guides here could get with me, such as Karinya, I need permission on whether or to use said guides before I move ahead and wikify them. My plan at present, when all permissions are granted, is likely to merge comprable data, make charts from it so the data from the guides is more comprehensive and less separated. Karinya and Spider-Dan's information would be such an example.

[Callisto]

Magus Roll should be easy to test in PVP w/ 2 CORs and a BLU using QD damage, the hardest part is finding a 2nd COR lol.

Edit: Or if you can think of a mob with a magical attack that always does the same amount of damage...I can't off the top of my head.

Shoot first to find base QD damage, then repeat with different values of BLU roll, solve damage formula backwards for MDB.

as far as the other 3, fucked if I could tell you a good way to find any of those without a parser set to record pet data, and Magic Accuracy has always been near-impossible to test.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Well, I think if Beast Roll could be proven to be comprable to Chaos, then it would be a given what the data for Puppet Roll was or vice versa.

If.

Its a big if.

[Callisto]

The hard part would be finding the pet's Attack to begin with, it'd be relatively easy from there. Or not. We haven't even re-established player pDIF and such, doing it for pets would be impossible lol...

Pet Acc should be relatively easy to discern w/ a parser, a mob w/ known Evasion, and a good sample size so Puppet Roll isn't that bad, then from the increases in hit rate % you should be able to get reasonably close to deducing what the increase in Acc is...but only getting 5-6 minutes a pop on each roll makes it difficult to get large sample sizes for each roll. :/

I'd say try it on Puppet first, and if it correlates to Hunter's correctly we take a leap of faith and say Beast = Chaos.

[Malacite]

DNC roll would have been fine, if it was a low level roll. But in the 60's? WTF SE. Why not haste/attack speed/regain?

Sure it fits the DNC's primary roll (healer) but it doesn't directly help it as all the other rolls do.

[Callisto]

KK, in with a DNC, about to start testing!
______________________________
I - 6/tick
II - 7/tick
III - 14/tcck
IV - 7/tick
V - 8/tick
VI - 9/tick
VII - 4/tick
VIII - 10/tick
IX - 11/tick
X - 11/tick
XI - 17/tick

So +3 to every value...going to try and get Magus' done tomorrow...

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

DNC roll would have been fine, if it was a low level roll. But in the 60's? WTF SE. Why not haste/attack speed/regain?

Haste would have been logical, there is no trait about DNC that screams "regain," though, so giving us that when WE ALREADY HAVE SAMURAI ROLL would be stupidly broken. Give Regain to a mage not called RDM or SCH, as they have enough going for them now.

Additionally, let's look at what DNC Roll does for COR:

• CORs have a five minute duration on DNC's Roll at no MP cost, which can be extended further if you merit Winning Streak. COR just got itself something that can be used in Tank PTs in addtion to Gallant's Roll- not even SCH, WHM or BRD can beat that Regen. COR just wins on duration alone.
• Increases a COR's soloablity by a notable margin.

[Callisto]

Haste would have been logical, there is no trait about DNC that screams "regain," though, so giving us that when WE ALREADY HAVE SAMURAI ROLL would be stupidly broken. Give Regain to a mage not called RDM or SCH, as they have enough going for them now.

Additionally, let's look at what DNC Roll does for COR:

• CORs have a five minute duration on DNC's Roll at no MP cost, which can be extended further if you merit Winning Streak. COR just got itself something that can be used in Tank PTs in addtion to Gallant's Roll- not even SCH, WHM or BRD can beat that Regen. COR just wins on duration alone.
• Increases a COR's soloablity by a notable margin.

I agree with the 2nd point, it's fantastic in Campaign. However the duration/PR cooldown kind of hamper it as well in terms of using it during downtime the way you'd use Paeon, since it's going to be at least 2 minutes before you can get back to your normal roll rotation.

Side note: Gallant's Roll sucks.

[Malacite]

I can see it being somewhat useful at end game, piled on top of Double Paeon and Regen III (with full merits and relic hat).


That'd give a PLD...

Paeon V = 8 (assuming +1 harp and max skill) (16 with SV)
Paeon IV = 7 (14 with SV)
Regen III = 28 (Merits + Relic)
DNC Roll = 17 (assuming DNC + an XI) (also assuming they even stack)
Knights of Round? (I heard it's around 20, but this probably won't stack)

So altogether a PLD could in theory gain 75 HP/tic. Hory ****!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I agree with the 2nd point, it's fantastic in Campaign. However the duration/PR cooldown kind of hamper it as well in terms of using it during downtime the way you'd use Paeon, since it's going to be at least 2 minutes before you can get back to your normal roll rotation.

Depends on the situation and the number or rolls needed for a buff cycle. Some PTs are a four buff cycle, some are three and others are two. The smaller or more specialized the group is, the lower the cycle and likely less of a need to do a full four buff rotation. The larger and more diverse a PT gets, its more likely you'll be doing a four buff cycle.

Side note: Gallant's Roll sucks.

Its actually quite good now as of the August '07 update, its just still extemely situational. I've done tanking PTs with it before, 25-33% or damage being reflected back is not that shabby. I remember a PLD taking 200 a shot from Kaiser Behemoths in Limbus. He went from taking 200 a hit to 150ish with 45-50 points of damage reflected.

Saying Gallant's Roll sucks is like saying Carols or Barspells suck, they don't suck at all, they're just not always useful.

[Callisto]

It's the resist rate that has always been my issue, every once in awhile it'll have a really nice proc, but more often than not PLD gets hit for 100 and spikes reflect 3, I'd rather just give him Evoker's or something.