[Karinya]

I don't think it will do anything more than reduce MP costs, if it is allowed at all. Imagine MP Mambo + Flare x5...

Completely negating MP cost in a game where it ties up 1/3 of your party and (IIRC) there were enough other MP-restoring abilities and items to make it not that much of a problem anyway is one thing... completely negating MP cost in FFXI is something else entirely.

Also, the WotG site description of dancers refers to their dances affecting "themselves and their enemies", which makes it possible that they may have no buffs at all.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Karinya

I don't think it will do anything more than reduce MP costs, if it is allowed at all. Imagine MP Mambo + Flare x5...

If there's going to be a Conserve MP buff, then I think I know which job that buff would belong to.

Completely negating MP cost in a game where it ties up 1/3 of your party and (IIRC) there were enough other MP-restoring abilities and items to make it not that much of a problem anyway is one thing... completely negating MP cost in FFXI is something else entirely.

Also, the WotG site description of dancers refers to their dances affecting "themselves and their enemies", which makes it possible that they may have no buffs at all.

Dancer has always at least had a handful of PT buffs and the catch was the effects of what they do are restricted to the duration of the dance. When a dance begins, it doesn't stop for a while.

The WotG description is cryptic, possibly implying it could also have some kind of tanking function. Dancers did need enemy attention to charm/confuse them, otherwise tantalizing the enemy was pointless.

I think we'll see more offensive debuffing and a handful of buffs, I don't think buffing will be entirely out of their duties.

[framerate]

I could see time mage roll being a haste, but I agree that may make us overpowered.

Also someone said "regain" roll. I think they meant "regen" and I agree, I miss not being able to regen our party, but I'm not sure any of the supposed jobs could do it. I do believe time mage would have a "regain" spell though (TP over time).

[Nuriko]

I could see a PT loving that during a 5-minute break, or in preparation to some difficult fight ... imagine the Promy boss fights if you could start at 300% TP.

[Dymlos]

Even though it most likely will be broken as all hell, if we got TIM, the TIM roll could be Regain, but that would be broken as all hell. Fun though!

[Denade]

Perhaps instead of neglecting MP use, a new dice roll can simply affect a job trait like conserve MP? Just increase the % of how often you save MP on spellcasting. Theoretically, a BLM ancient spell cost could be reduced which could be usefull in many situations.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

If there's going to be a Conserve MP buff, then I think I know which job that buff would belong to.

If there was a +Evasion roll, I think I'd know what job that buff would belong to, also.

And I'd be wrong.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

The original set of rolls had to have a degree of liberty taken with them, you know, since Ninja and Bard didn't really have any job traits to draw from that wouldn't either be broken or totally useless. Job traits don't seem to be an area where ToA jobs themselves were lacking.

They also had the hope that players would consider inviting certain jobs for the bonuses they provided instead of, you know, calling them "meritpo stepchildren" like some people I know. But we all know how that turned out.

At any rate, were Dancer to have any kind of MP Mambo dance, I thinka conserve MP buff be a good PR for them. Or one based on Witch Hunt, allowing damage to done to enemy MP.

[Kuro]

oh god, regain + Samurai's roll would just be... unholy!

Im currently looking at unlocking my new coffinmaker... and THREE WSNM's on my COR! thats like 1400 WSP (Weapon skill points)

Regain and Samurais roll with my BRD friend for haste and a SAM... thats just criminal TP gain!

[Wiseman40]

Originally Posted by Kuro

oh god, regain + Samurai's roll would just be... unholy!

Im currently looking at unlocking my new coffinmaker... and THREE WSNM's on my COR! thats like 1400 WSP (Weapon skill points)

Regain and Samurais roll with my BRD friend for haste and a SAM... thats just criminal TP gain!

Criminal indeed. Although I would love to see it - I think it would be broken.

In the current system, without any real +tp gear I see people using a WS every 5 hits.

With regain, and TP gear + a samurai... what would it be? 2 hits?

one...two...WS! one...two...WS!

Then the SAM would just be

onw...WS! one...two...UberWS!

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

AS it stands right now, I can get 100% TP in five attack rounds with a good samurai roll + Joyeuse. Dunno how needed Regain actually is considering how good Samurai Roll is.

[Karinya]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Dancer has always at least had a handful of PT buffs and the catch was the effects of what they do are restricted to the duration of the dance. When a dance begins, it doesn't stop for a while.

Not true. FFV dances had no duration (they were all instant effects) and none of them were buffs. FFT dances were all debuffs and the effects kicked in periodically while dancing - but once an effect happened, it would persist even if you stopped dancing. The mechanics you're thinking of really only apply to FFX2 Songstress's dances.

I'd say it's too early to tell for sure whether SE will take a FFV-ish or a FFT-ish or a FFX2-ish approach to dancing - or some combination of them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Karinya

Not true. FFV dances had no duration (they were all instant effects) and none of them were buffs. FFT dances were all debuffs and the effects kicked in periodically while dancing - but once an effect happened, it would persist even if you stopped dancing. The mechanics you're thinking of really only apply to FFX2 Songstress's dances.

I'd say it's too early to tell for sure whether SE will take a FFV-ish or a FFT-ish or a FFX2-ish approach to dancing - or some combination of them.

Actually, I was thinking about Mog, too. Once you got Mog started on a dance, you no longer had control of him. Mog's style was tied to Geomancy, though, and the results of each round of the dance were randomized.

I don't seriously think SE would make Dancer as a "bezerked" support class in an MMO context, though. But I do think, from the descriptions I've read that this class would be one that needs to entrance or gain the attention of an enemy to do thier work.

[Spider-Dan]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

The original set of rolls had to have a degree of liberty taken with them, you know, since Ninja and Bard didn't really have any job traits to draw from that wouldn't either be broken or totally useless.

Ninja could have had a delay reduction roll, and it would have been perfectly consistent and useful (more useful than Ninja Roll is now).

In any case, it's one thing to create a new effect for a roll. But Ninja Roll, as is, gives a bonus that clearly belongs to a different job. So if they can put +evasion on Ninja Roll, then +Conserve MP on a Dancer roll is nothing.

They also had the hope that players would consider inviting certain jobs for the bonuses they provided instead of, you know, calling them "meritpo stepchildren" like some people I know.

I guess that's why Drachen Roll was/is so useful, right?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Spider-Dan

I guess that's why Drachen Roll was/is so useful, right?

Actually, it is useful now. While not common to have DRG in a manaburn PT, PUPs do have access to Tier IV Black Magic via automations now and are a common sight in manaburns. Drachen Roll wasn't terribly useful before because Wyvern Breath attacks are weak and Avatar Nukes are few and far between, but now we have a pet job that can be used to nuke far more consistently.

As such, Drachen Roll has a function and purpose now, DRG present or not.