[BurningPanther]

Why wouldn't a WAR pull? They get access to Sleep bolts, just like THF, DRK, and RNG do. And it's not like their leaving the party will result in a loss of chains, seeing as how they coming right back to the camp with the next mob to be chained.

As for COR, I regard them as pullers much in the way I might regard a BRD. Sure, they can do it, but I wouldn't make them the first to do it.

[Armando]

Merit parties are a whole different beast. Outside of merit parties there's no good reason why a WAR can't pull.

[Murphie]

Oh, I regard BRD as pullers. They can clearly do it better than almost any other class, so I see little reason why they shouldn't be first choice.

Edit: Exactly my point, Armando.

[Aeolus]

Originally Posted by Murphie

Eh. Must be nice to just stand around and do damage while the rest of the party works overtime to provide exp for your ass.
Later on in the game, I totally understand why WARs wouldn't pull. But for much of the game, you're not in a TP burn situation, and I'd rather have a WAR go out and pull something than a COR who has buffs to worry about and a really long delay on their ranged attack. They can't sleep either, so I see little reason why one of the melee can't pull. I mean, if it's a choice between COR or RDM, or one of the other members of the party, then I'm going to look to some of those melees and ask why they don't step up.
They certainly used to do it without bitching, but I guess they are all princesses now.

I was talking about TP burn seens as thats all people do these days and yea, I just stand around doing dmg while other people work overtime lol for my ass because if I didnt they wouldnt be working overtime for anything.

[Murphie]

Yeah, but this thread isn't about TP Burns. So next time try and be a little bit more informed.

It's cute that you think you're so important to the party that all you need to do is show up, but the rest of the party that is keeping your lazy ass alive sees it differently.

[Aeolus]

Ok LOL

[Murphie]

Well, at least you're not trying to hide your trolling.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Aeolus

I dont think cor should pull either just like when you have rngs pulling they cant sleep a mob very well or quickly and usually chains just end up dieing. Brd ftw, cor/rng/rdm if not. Thf can leave the fight as well early if they whack sata up before pulling so benifiting the Dmg delt in the long run. IMO

Comparing Light Shot to Sleep Bolts is asinine.

COR can sleep extremely well. In most cases mobs slept by Light Shot stay slept for up to a full minute or more, especially VT mobs.

I don't think you've meritted with many CORs.

[Aeolus]

Well its once per minute which isnt too hot if your killing 2-3 in a min at a time(unless you can merit it?). They cant aoe sleep as far as I know which doesnt help. Really reason brd is the best for TP burn but like murphie said already its not about TP burns D: As for the not meriting with Cors, I have but most wont pull and the rest end up dead lol.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Aeolus

Well its once per minute which isnt too hot if your killing 2-3 in a min at a time(unless you can merit it?). They cant aoe sleep as far as I know which doesnt help. Really reason brd is the best for TP burn but like murphie said already its not about TP burns D: As for the not meriting with Cors, I have but most wont pull and the rest end up dead lol.

Quick Draw recast can be meritted. I've pulled respectably high chains without AoE sleep, its all matter of knowing the camp, knowing your shadows, your QD timer and having a feel for your PT's kill speed.

But then, I was once a BRD, I still pull with the same mentality I had before being a COR. I know when to leave to pull and don't forsake the core aspects of my job to pull: That whole buffing thing.

My main issue with BRDs pulling is they don't maintain buffs in EXP/merit very well, which IS a piece of the EXP per Hour pie. Buffs are why BRDs and CORs are invited in the first place. COR bests BRD in buff duration by nature, but BRD gives the best all around bonuses in what little common ground they have. What really gets me is BRDs can maintain buffs and pull - they just don't seem to want to.

[Aeolus]

Yea its hard to find a good brd who can do buffs and pull and even harder to find a Cor who can. Now knowing more about light shot now I full believe you that cor can pull just as well. I have PTed with some of the worst brd/cor for mainting buffs and pulling lol (while I sat around on my ass doing nothing).

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm not oblivious to the breed of COR that ignores buffing, I PTed with one occastionally while taking my RNG to 75 first. To say he was bad would be extreme so I'll just say he was "special."

PTed in a SH and dual wielded swords... with no ranged bonuses. Couldn't hit for crap and missed lots of weaponskills. Mages went without Evoker's for up to five minutes at a time. And he never doubled-up, ever. I can see people losing track when you hit a rough spot, have some adds or whatever, but otherwise, you should be able to maintain buffs.

I've never really had a complaint outside of a little overpulling the 40s. Mostly compliments, really.

[Shinhiryu_Kage]

Oh man... last night in XP PT on my 54 RDM, it was NIN MNK WAR COR RDM SMN and our COR was pulling. We were doing Bats/Scrops in KRT and of course, pulling tons of adds. (The camp is unfortunately designed that way at the entrance.)

I don't remember one time seeing that COR use Light Shot to help sleep the adds (it was all bats that added, that is.) I ended up having to Kite w/Bind/Grav in order to handle the Adds and keep up Buffs on myself to do some mini-tanking.

I wish I woulda remembered that COR had the ability to sleep mobs because I woulda flat told him that, in no less than "amiable" circumstances.

SHOOT lol

Otherwise, he did pretty good pulling. He kept up Refresh on me and the SMN at least. I think he was a little slow though on the melee's rolls..... but its melee.... not like they're important *wink*(tee-hee.)

[Cyrilis]

The one thing I'm curious to ask is, you guys are refering to the proper method of keeping up 4 different rolls on the party right?
I can't answer the possibility for COR being a puller in end game, with the use of merits on Phantom roll., as my CORs only lvl 66.
But before end game, post lvl 40, its next to impossible to honestly pull, and to keep up 4 different rolls on the PT, ( I.E Hunters and Fighters on melees, Healers and Evokers on mages) The math works like this. Each roll lasts for 5 min, the cooltime on Phantom roll is 1min; meaning you can only proceed to give rolls on a 1 min basis. Then you gotta work in your times for both judging distances, and doubling up. So basically your left with a 1 min window open between each rolls. Now technically, you COULD pull between those rolls, however its rather ineffective, and your bound to run behind on your rolls, and should you do, it will take another 4 min to catch back up.
And of course, finally, even if you were some hyper sugar fiend, with coffeine surging through your veins, I doubt you'll be able to keep a pace like this for 3 to 4 hours.

So the answer? I'd rather have another melee then a COR pull, just because its like putting a handicap on a BRD with his songs, then asking him to pull AND do his job.
Which is usually why I have to laugh at these COR/NINs post lvl 40.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Cyrilis

But before end game, post lvl 40, its next to impossible to honestly pull, and to keep up 4 different rolls on the PT, ( I.E Hunters and Fighters on melees, Healers and Evokers on mages) The math works like this. Each roll lasts for 5 min, the cooltime on Phantom roll is 1min; meaning you can only proceed to give rolls on a 1 min basis. Then you gotta work in your times for both judging distances, and doubling up. So basically your left with a 1 min window open between each rolls. Now technically, you COULD pull between those rolls, however its rather ineffective, and your bound to run behind on your rolls, and should you do, it will take another 4 min to catch back up.
And of course, finally, even if you were some hyper sugar fiend, with coffeine surging through your veins, I doubt you'll be able to keep a pace like this for 3 to 4 hours.

So the answer? I'd rather have another melee then a COR pull, just because its like putting a handicap on a BRD with his songs, then asking him to pull AND do his job.
Which is usually why I have to laugh at these COR/NINs post lvl 40.

I believe you're thinking way too hard about this. The timer for Phantom Roll shouldn't even be a concern for you by now. If anything, it is a blessing in disguise.

First off, you should know your Lucky/Unlucky #s by heart and know which numbers are best to double up or stay on if you don't land on either. If you know your Evoker's Roll, for example, then you know the best numbers are 5, 8, 10 and 11. 5 is Lucky, giving 3 MP a tick, 8 and 10 give 2 MP a tick, 11 is 4MP a tick.

If you're having a hard time judging range, you need some practice. COR buff range is roughly the same as a BRD playing a flute. Granted, BRDs buffs can vary in AoE range as his song tiers change, but COR doen't have tiers and that range doesn't seem to vary at all. Perhaps a little low level EXP is in order with BRD. BRD spends less time in combat and more time supporting the PT, as such, you'll be doing lots of buffing.

Also, in any ideal pulling situation you're going to have the mobs within reach. If your camp has long pulls you are going to lost out on a chain or buff cycle just because they're long pulls. Shorter pulls will resolve this issue.

Know your rolls, know your range and know your camp and time between buffs will become less of an issue. COR is at a disadvantage for the majority of its career due to the 480 to 600 delay guns they can wield, but if non-competitive camps that delay is not much of an issue. At 72, you have Peacemaker with 280 Delay - this pretty much levels the playing field for COR, as does our reduced QD timer.

Finally:

You do not have to have the kill shot.
You do not have to have the kill shot.
You do not have to have the kill shot.

When pulling, COR's job is 33.3 Percent QD/buffing, 33.3 percent pulling and 33.3 percent melee (and that last one is being generous). If you are in a TP Burn-type PT, you will be leaving at 2/3rds mob or sooner HP to pull the next mob (If its a manaburn don't even wait that long just pull again because that mob is toast). If QD is down, you will be blink-tanking the mob until it is either back up or the PT is ready to take it. Melee will become your last priority and you may not even engage the mob at times save to dump a Slug Shot or Spirits Within mid-fight.

If your PT does get a BRD, you can either to agree to cooperate and pull in tandem or just use it as an opportunity to sub /RNG again and melee and buff instead of pulling. Either honestly works, but the former really cooks up a fine EXP per hour.

Just as a final note, if you engage the current mob after using Light Shot on another, either have another job cast a non-DoT enfeeble on it or have a melee Provoke it. When COR shifts from sleeping one mob to melee another , claim on the slept mob can be lost. In TP Burn, the best solution is just to not engage the current mob at all, just go buff or pull something else if the current mob is about to die.