[bar]

I'm debating whether I want to continue with Bard, or maybe try out Corsair.

Anyone able to point out the differences and simularities between the two?

[Murphie]

They are simliar in how they buff, but the way that they fight, and the benefits that they provide the party aren't exactly the same. A COR can't necessarily replace a BRD, but I think they compliment each other very well.

COR also uses Ranged Attack for their Quick Draw ability, so subbing RNG would be a smart (although not the only) choice there, while BRD can sub WHM and act as a backup healer/status remover for the party without sacrificing effectiveness.

Both can pull though.

[bar]

So a Corsair runs around buffing, and in between buffs fires off ranged attacks?

[Murphie]

Yes. They can attack with melee as well, but quick draw requires a ranged attack if I'm not mistaken.

[Ellipses]

Also note that a Corsair's buffs last for five minutes, so there's quite a bit less running around.

[Neomage]

The cool thing about quick draw is it helps enfeeble - This is why BRD + COR is such a powerful combo. For instance, BRD uses Foe Requim VI? on target for 6hp/tick. COR uses QuickShot and increaces thagt to 9-12 hp/tick.

[Murphie]

Two of my old friends on Seraph went from 37-50 in like, a couple short days in a BRD/COR/ABunchOfOtherJobs party. Semi-static, I think, so that helped, but they seriously tore through the mobs. To hear them tell it, they were turning IT+ mobs into the equivalent of VTs, so they didn't have much trouble kiling.

That may just be a poor way of describing the situation, but I dunno.

[DakAttack]

Corsair are Support/Melee, while Bards are Support/Support. Corsairs only have buffs, while Bards have buffs and debuffs, but Corsairs can deal out more damage than Bards. Bards' buffs are of consistant strength, while the Corsair's depends on the roll, and if that particular job is in the party or not.

It's awesome to have either in a party.

[kuu]

Cor's have their twists, and brds have their twists. They rarely step on each other.

Cor's have decent range power and skill, and better selection of weapons

Cor have no debuffing ability(quick draw isn't really debuff as it strengthings a debuff on).

Cor rolls are non skill based modifier, and no teirs(except having a job)

Cor's rolls have areas brds don't touch, and vice versa. Almost all rolls brds don't have like a war db, crit att, xp up, pet up, etc.

Brds have elementa/stat based like stat+, def up, haste, mov+, elemental resist up, etc

Brds have debuff. Sleep, elemental down, hp down, slow, etc.

This it's really almost night and day, both having areas others do not. And like night and day, only a few blurs at certain times.

Passive support vs Active Support.

A brd can't push damage (unable to contribute with offense) but can sleep, slow, and weaken.

A cor oppositely can't contribute to defense( don't ask cor to sleep things, lessen enemies resistance, or stall) but can add damage when need with range, swings, WS, SC, quickdraw, random deal.

Comparing these two is like comparing whm and blm.

[Murphie]

That's why I would (ideally) just invite both. Much like BLM and WHM.

[Taskmage]

I think it's more like comparing whm and smn. Both cor and brd are invited for the primary purpose of providing refresh and often melee accuracy. The overlap of those two very desirable abilities means the two jobs are often competing for the same spot in a party. It's not an apples and oranges comparison.

One thing I don't think anyone has pointed out yet is Finale. Brd can Dispel and cor can not. This is the major distinction in my opinion. Dispel makes or breaks parties. If you're targeting mobs that buff and don't have a rdm or blu, brd is your only choice for refresher. If you do have a rdm or blu, cor is a better choice for the ability to enhance the mage's debuffs and contribute significantly to the melee.

This is of course dependent on level ranges, assuming both jobs have the relevant abilities and are seeking. I think blu doesn't get dispel and cor doesn't get refresh until ~lvl40.

Double Post Edited:
Oh, and I forgot to highlight Sleep, which makes bard indispensable in specialized parties like manaburns and tp burn parties. The rest of my reply has mostly traditional exp in mind.

[kuu]

Originally Posted by Taskmage

I think it's more like comparing whm and smn. Both cor and brd are invited for the primary purpose of providing refresh and often melee accuracy. The overlap of those two very desirable abilities means the two jobs are often competing for the same spot in a party. It's not an apples and oranges comparison.

One thing I don't think anyone has pointed out yet is Finale. Brd can Dispel and cor can not. This is the major distinction in my opinion. Dispel makes or breaks parties. If you're targeting mobs that buff and don't have a rdm or blu, brd is your only choice for refresher. If you do have a rdm or blu, cor is a better choice for the ability to enhance the mage's debuffs and contribute significantly to the melee.

This is of course dependent on level ranges, assuming both jobs have the relevant abilities and are seeking. I think blu doesn't get dispel and cor doesn't get refresh until ~lvl40.

Double Post Edited:
Oh, and I forgot to highlight Sleep, which makes bard indispensable in specialized parties like manaburns and tp burn parties. The rest of my reply has mostly traditional exp in mind.

Sometimes refresh sometimes not.

Just like brds put preferences on dual valor, for Melee burn, refresh isn't always needed, or at the bottom of the barrel.

If we have 4 DD 1 cor 1(or brd) rdm, I doubt you even need refresh that much because there will be so much running around.

neither cor or brd are put in for refresh only just like rdm isn't put in for refresh only.

[Taskmage]

Aye. Again, my experience is primarily with traditional exp parties. pld or nin, DD, DD, nuker, refresh, healer. There are situations and setups with refresh is not needed, but most people now think of refresh as a required part of the party to reduce downtime and increase exp/hr. In that situation, the other abilities that cor and brd bring to the table are secondary benefits. If only one or the other is available I will invite them for that ability without further thought; if both are available then I will consider which of their other abilities will be most useful to the party.

[Atma]

Advantages to Corsair (At 23, FWIW)
Less overall buffing - Buffs last 5 minutes.
Contributes to party damage significantly past 22 (bronze bullets (3 loldmg) -> bullets (22 zomgdmg)) assuming solid equipment, food, and marksmanship skill (28-30% of damage in my party at 23.. I commonly shoot for 50-60 on IT mobs.)
Can pull very effectively with either of the common subs (rng/nin)

Advantages for Bard:
Can recast buffs "at will" (discounting recast). Corsairs can only roll once per minute, and cannot reroll an effect they have on them (so if you roll corsair's roll and miss someone, you must either reroll others till corsair's is gone then reroll, a process taking at least 3 minutes, or just wait till it fades.
Commonly desired buffs (ATK and ACC) are fixed in effect and superior in power.
Traditionally contributes to party healing with /whm

I agree with some of those just before me. At my level I feel COR/WHM/BRD is the best back line available.

I would say that based on Russta's parse logs showing cor doing respectable damage in high 50s, It is a safe bet to say "If you want to do support/DD, pick up corsair. If you want to do support/healing, keep with brd.)

[Murphie]

Here are a couple of examples from the LJ of a couple of people I know who are leveling in a COR + BRD + other Melee party. They literally tear through the exp. Then again, they are staticed, and so they know how each other play, and most of them have multiple 75s and are geared to the nines as a result. Still, it's intriguing. They were 37 last time I checked, and now they are at 60.

http://miruka.livejournal.com/124950.html

http://miruka.livejournal.com/127268.html

http://miruka.livejournal.com/128466.html