[bside]

This morning my PC suddenly froze, screen got bugged (not the famous blue screen, though), and after I rebooted it, it beeped at the POST and didn't boot. After some trouble-shooting, it was 1 of 2 RAM sticks that somehow suddenly died (another one seems ok for now, but maybe it got damaged, too). While I need to replace RAM anyways, there's this one thing I'm considering now; upgrade to AM2 or not.

My PC is a socket 939 Athlon based, and naturally it uses DDR. While DDR RAM is still widely available, it's obvious that it's fading away as we speak, w/ both Intel and AMD now supporting DDR2. And w/ AMD's AM2 socket platform now being the mainstream for Athlon based systems, I'm assuming that it'll fade away faster than I thought.


I never used DDR2-based systems, so I don't know how much overall performace increase can be expected by moving to AM2 and DDR2, or in other words, whether the performance gain is something noticeable or not. From my understanding the only difference between 939 and AM2 are DDR2 support and Virtualization technology which is something I don't need.

Now, my options are as follows;

1. Just replace RAM for now, and wait for at least Vista or maybe DirectX 10, and see if upgrade is needed at that point. (Obviously, the cheapest option.)

2. Go AM2 and DDR2 now, if DDR2 provides me w/ noticeably greater performance. (Need to buy CPU, RAM, and mobo for this. And many AM2 mobo claim to be "Vista ready" while those of 939 don't.)

3. Am I nuts to go for AMD? Get Core 2 Duo, arguably the hottest CPU on the market now. (Costs more than the option 2.)


Which one do you think is the best action to take? Any input on this is greatly appreciated. And to help you better understand my current circumstance, here's some info;

My PC
CPU: Athlon 64 X2 3800+, socket 939, Manchester
RAM: 2* 512MB DDR PC3200 (one dead
Mobo: ASUS A8N-SLI (nForce4 SLI, not 16x, but not planning to go SLI at this point)
VGA: RADEON X700 Pro, PCI-e
OS: Windows XP MCE 2005 w/ Rollup 2

Usage
Games: FFXI only. No other PC games.

Multi-task: Occasionaly. The heaviest usage would be Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Flash, IE, E-mail, WMP playing MP3 files all at once.

CPU-hungry tasks: Do some video encoding from time to time, but not so often. Set the task batch and let it do the job while I'm asleep. Never do it while I'm awake.

Misc
RAM price: DDR PC3200 and DDR2 PC5300 RAMs of the same capacity are about the same in price in Japan. DDR2 PC6400 ones cost about US$5-10 more per stick.

Budget: I will upgrade at some point in the path anyways, so not concerned much about how much they cost. It's a question of timing, whether go for it now or wait till something major happens later.

Old components: If I go w/ upgrade, I'll sell them at auctions or to the used PC stores (widely available in Japan) in order to save as much bucks as possible.


Again, thanks for your inputs in advance.

[Sabaron]

Obviously, it all depends on what you want to do with it. I don't think anyone (least of all on FFXIOnline) can make that decision for you. Personally, I rarely buy cutting edge--not because it's expensive, but because new technology is usually not necessarily as upgradable. Six months to a year after a technology comes out, you'll start seeing more featureful motherboards. Usually the initial foray is made with a few boards and many of the manufacturers who make "compatible" boards will have BIOS problems and you'll end up with bugs crawling around that you can't fix for 6 months until the flash pack comes out.

Without looking at the specifics of your motherboard and the RAM upgrade your talking about (my brother's PC is of a similar configuration), I would say that if the new MB/Processor combination you're looking at is compatible with the higher grade RAM, but the high grade ram and swap it out to your new PC after the technology has a chance to stabilize. You can keep that 512 you have now and swap it back in when you get your new PC and, since you appear to be a webhead, downgrade your old PC to a mini-server (maybe wipe the HD and put Linux on) and use it as a Development or Low-hit Hosting box.

[bside]

Originally Posted by Sabaron

Obviously, it all depends on what you want to do with it. I don't think anyone (least of all on FFXIOnline) can make that decision for you. Personally, I rarely buy cutting edge--not because it's expensive, but because new technology is usually not necessarily as upgradable. Six months to a year after a technology comes out, you'll start seeing more featureful motherboards. Usually the initial foray is made with a few boards and many of the manufacturers who make "compatible" boards will have BIOS problems and you'll end up with bugs crawling around that you can't fix for 6 months until the flash pack comes out.

Without looking at the specifics of your motherboard and the RAM upgrade your talking about (my brother's PC is of a similar configuration), I would say that if the new MB/Processor combination you're looking at is compatible with the higher grade RAM, but the high grade ram and swap it out to your new PC after the technology has a chance to stabilize. You can keep that 512 you have now and swap it back in when you get your new PC and, since you appear to be a webhead, downgrade your old PC to a mini-server (maybe wipe the HD and put Linux on) and use it as a Development or Low-hit Hosting box.

Yeah, I do understand that nobody but myself can make the decision, but I wanted to ask what you'd do if you were in my shoes, especially because a lot of new technologies are planned within 1 year period, such as Vista, quad-core CPU, etc.

As for the mobo/RAM combination, I was thinking of something nForce 5*0 based along w/ DDR2 PC6400 (probably 2*512MB) and X2 3800+ AM2; pretty much the only differences from the current spec are RAM speed and mobo chipsets. From my understanding, AM2 is not the whole new technology, but rather bases itself on the existing socket 939/940/754 architecture, and as such GeForce 6100/6150 and K8T890, originally designed for socket 939, are widely used for AM2 mobo as well. For this reason I'm not so worried about the stability issue. (I had enough nightmares w/ nForce2 anyways lol) And because DDR and DDR2 don't have compatibilities, if I go w/ upgrade I'd probably just sell the 512 stick I currently have.

BTW, I already have another PC dedicated for server (small, Linux-based box), so I'm not planning to use the current power-hungry PC for the same purpose. I also have a laptop but obvisouly I can't use the desktop DDR for it so it's really keep it or sell it and upgrade choice.

[neighbortaru]

well, aside from the busted ram, how satisfied are you with your current PC and the things you do with it? if you are happy with the current speed, then I would say just replace the RAM. if you are looking to upgrade to something faster, then go with AM2 and DDR2.

[Thrasher]

The cheep way to fix this is find a comparable stick to replace the dead stick of memory with it. And are you sure your memory does not have a warranty from the manufacture?

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/...elf/index.html
This should make for some (long and kind boring) informational reading about AM2.

Its really not worth upgrading to a AM2 just for performance unless you are going with a faster processor say a 4600+ or above. Only the higher end AMD chips can make the best use of DDR2 interface. But the obvious problem here is 939 is a dead socket, and DDR 1 prices are going up as the supply gets tight also you seem to be in the market for a new motherboard anyways. Depending on motherboard and processor prices in your region Intel Core 2 might be worth the extra money if you are choosing to do the full upgrade path.

Upgrading to AM2 will allow for upgradeability to faster processors and faster ram. But with DDR2 ram the 3800+ will take a slight performance hit over the 939 version of the 3800+ with DDR1.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/...lf/page28.html


Also make INPORTANT NOTES OF THE RAM SPEED IN THOSE BENCHMARKS I cant stress this enough when selecting ram a processor. So you can buy the best preforming ram for your cpu for the price. (This only applies to AM2) http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/...elf/page9.html


In closeing, I should of bought 2 gigs of good DDR gaming ram for cheep when I had the chance. (My value ram set now costs $20 more then when I bought it.)

[bside]

Originally Posted by neighbortaru

well, aside from the busted ram, how satisfied are you with your current PC and the things you do with it? if you are happy with the current speed, then I would say just replace the RAM. if you are looking to upgrade to something faster, then go with AM2 and DDR2.

Nice pointing. Honoestly speaking, I'm satisfied w/ the current performance at this point, as far as my general usage is concerned. I was thinking this might change once I switch to Vista, but we won't know until it's actually out in January (or November for corporate editions).

Originally Posted by Thrasher

The cheep way to fix this is find a comparable stick to replace the dead stick of memory with it. And are you sure your memory does not have a warranty from the manufacture?

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/...elf/index.html
This should make for some (long and kind boring) informational reading about AM2.

Its really not worth upgrading to a AM2 just for performance unless you are going with a faster processor say a 4600+ or above. Only the higher end AMD chips can make the best use of DDR2 interface. But the obvious problem here is 939 is a dead socket, and DDR 1 prices are going up as the supply gets tight also you seem to be in the market for a new motherboard anyways. Depending on motherboard and processor prices in your region Intel Core 2 might be worth the extra money if you are choosing to do the full upgrade path.

Upgrading to AM2 will allow for upgradeability to faster processors and faster ram. But with DDR2 ram the 3800+ will take a slight performance hit over the 939 version of the 3800+ with DDR1.
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/...lf/page28.html


Also make INPORTANT NOTES OF THE RAM SPEED IN THOSE BENCHMARKS I cant stress this enough when selecting ram a processor. So you can buy the best preforming ram for your cpu for the price. (This only applies to AM2) http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/...elf/page9.html


In closeing, I should of bought 2 gigs of good DDR gaming ram for cheep when I had the chance. (My value ram set now costs $20 more then when I bought it.)

Unfortunately, this dead stick only had 1 year warranty, which ended last month... God, they knew it!!! Finding a comparable stick is easy, but since this is for dual-channel configuration, I'd rather pick 2 of the same manufacture, idealy of the same lot.

And thanks for those links. I was surprised how low DDR2 sticks scored in the benchmarks when combined w/ the mid to low range CPU's. I was looking at PC6400 of CAS Latency 5, so it could be even worse, as the benchmarks used CL4 sticks.





Thanks for all those inputs guys. I'd just replace the dead RAM stick for now, and see how it runs when Vista is out. And this time, I'd go w/ something better, ones w/ lifetime warranty

Oh, the last question. Anyone has any recommendation as to what memory manufacture I should pick? I've been using the cheap, no-name ones over the years so I don't have that much of knowledge about the RAM quality manufactures. I know companies like hynix, Corsair, Samsung, and Micron are famous, but when considering the durability, which on would you recommend? I don't overclock, btw.

[Thrasher]

If you are not over clocking go with a major brand's value memory (or what ever they are calling it). I bought Corsair due it was the fastest value memory I could get and the price was right. And on the lower end memory heat spreaders are useless, so unless you need the looks don't spend any extra money just because ram has them.


When you buy the major brands value memory run memory test 86+ on it just to be safe due to they are batch tested not individually tested like there performance memory's. This is how Corsair works some brands also just batch test there performance memory to bring down costs . I learned this the hard way and the holiday's shipping rush made waiting for my new memory all the more fun.


And if you can buy actual Samsung sticks of memory in your region then your a lucky bastedsword, Samsung is known for understating there memory's actual performance.

[bside]

Originally Posted by Thrasher

If you are not over clocking go with a major brand's value memory (or what ever they are calling it). I bought Corsair due it was the fastest value memory I could get and the price was right. And on the lower end memory heat spreaders are useless, so unless you need the looks don't spend any extra money just because ram has them.
When you buy the major brands value memory run memory test 86+ on it just to be safe due to they are batch tested not individually tested like there performance memory's. This is how Corsair works some brands also just batch test there performance memory to bring down costs . I learned this the hard way and the holiday's shipping rush made waiting for my new memory all the more fun.
And if you can buy actual Samsung sticks of memory in your region then your a lucky bastedsword, Samsung is known for understating there memory's actual performance.

I see, that's why they can offer them at such a low price.

I did some quick search for the value memories of major brands, but it turned out that many of the stores are now charging much higher price to those value lines, probably because of now-much-higher demands for DDR2 which is at the same time driving the DDR prices upwards. I'll do more search to see if any good ones are available.

And yes, we can get our hands on the "true" Samsung sticks here in Japan, but unfortunately, many stores do not correctly advertise them. Many are listed as "w/ Samsung chips" and we can't know if they are true Samsung sticks or of just some random makes who happened to use Samsung chips. And since Samsung chips are almost over-rated hear, any sticks w/ Samsung RAM chips on them are treated the same.

So in order to find the "true" Samsung sticks, we have to go to retail stores, several of them if we're unlucky, to actually take a look at them. But I've recently moved to subrbs area, and I don't feel like driving to Akihabara under Tokyo's one of the craziest traffic jams of the entire world just to find 2 sticks, and pay $10 for 2 hrs of parking (yeah, that's how much it could cost in Tokyo). Not to mention 30-mile drive in Tokyo could take more than 2 hrs.


I guess I'd find Corsair or hynix sticks somewhere online


UPDATE: Over the last week the memory prices were increased in Japan. What an unfortunate incident for me... But I was able to find the Kingston's HyperX (gaming line) sticks for almost the same price as those "value" lines from hynix and Corsair, though they're PC3500 (DDR434), and I'm expecting them to arrive at my door tomorrow.