[Armando]

'Sup guys. I'm sure those of you who frequent VZX's FFXI Doc have noticed that his translations mention that if you use a spell effective against the mob type you're fighting, "the multiplier is raised by 0.25" (vice-versa for the mob being strong to your spell.) This raises two questions: the wording isn't quite clear - is it Multiplier*1.25, or Multiplier+0.25? And, does this effect proc randomly like day/weather bonuses and penalties, or is it always present? This test seeks to verify just that.

34BLU/17THF
STR: 34+7
VIT: 33+3
Spells equipped: Sprout Smack

Damage = (DMG + fSTR + WSC) * fTP * PDIF

Spell used: Sprout Smack
DMG: 11
fTP: 1.50
WSC: 9 (VIT_30)
fSTR: ???
PDIF range: [2.6, 3.0] (Sneak Attack on every cast)

Tiny Mandragoras (Control group, no correlation):
129
117
129
129
129
119
129

(11 + 9 + fSTR) * 1.5 * 3.0 = 129

Solving for fSTR gave me a fractional value, which is impossible. Using the fSTR value that gives me the closest results (fSTR = 9) should yield a damage of 130. This tells me that the fTP value is actually slightly lower than 1.50. 1.485 seems to work in almost every calculation. Moving on...

Savanna Rarabs (Plantoids > Beasts):
150
150
144
139
131
141
150
150

Every single hit was higher than the ones against Tiny Mandragoras. This confirms that the damage bonus from monster correlation effects is present in every hit; it's always in effect. As for the matter regarding the +.25 to the multiplier, let's consider both possible scenarios:

The bonus is added:
(11 + 9 + 9) * (1.485 + 0.25) * 3.0 = 150.95

The bonus is multiplied:
(11 + 9 + 9) * (1.485 * 1.25) * 3.0 = 161.49

Clearly, the bonus is added. Now, for the sake of completeness, let's consider the opposite correlation...

Bumblebees (Plantoids < Vermin):
108
99
100
103
108
105
108
105
108

(11 + 9 + 9) * (1.485 - 0.25) * 3.0 = 107.45

The damage is a little bit off but this is most likely due to a slightly inaccurate value for fTP (I'm too lazy and tired to find the value that'll work on all three equations.) Once again, all hits were lower than the control group's.

What does this mean? The damage portion of the monster correlation bonuses and penalties for physical blue magic are always in effect. It seems fair to me to assume that the accuracy bonuses (or penalties) are always in effect, as well. This is all the more reason to be mindful of the monster correlations when you fight; it can be the difference between a normally good spell doing great, or awfully.

P.S. If someone could repeat this test with AF (the piece that strengthens monster correlation effects) on that'd be great.

[Armando]

Update! I got some help in the Allakhazam thread (I crossposted this over there.) It seems Magus Keffiyeh's "Increases Monster Correlation Effects" trait doesn't increase the damage bonus from casting spells on mobs that are weak to it; we suspect it increases the accuracy bonus instead.

Originally Posted by codine Scholar at Allakhazam

Tested with Magus Keffiyeh, and apparently, the "Improves Monster Correlation Effects" seems to have no effect on damage whatsoever. I think it might have to do with resists.

Test done on Wild Rabbits.
65BLU/32THF
STR 78
VIT 55

Formula works out as:

(11(DMG) + 16 (Mod) + 17 (fSTR)) * 1.75 * 3.0

No headgear:
210
225
231
221
231
231
With Magus Keffiyeh:
203
217
212
231
231
231
222
231

Also, VZX found the problem in my calculations; the Sprout Smack multiplier was right all along, but I had to drop the decimals after multiplying by fTP and before multiplying by PDIF. Everything checks out perfectly now.

Originally Posted by VZX Scholar at Allakhazam

OK, before I start analyzing... there's something I noticed lately about fTP
after your base damage multiplied by fTP, the number should be truncated

Doval was right getting fSTR=9. The exact calculation on first test should be
int((11 + 9 + 9) * 1.5) * 3.0 = 129
int(29*1.5)*3.0 = 43*3.0 = 129 (exactly)

and for second test multiplier is raised by 0.25 (1.5+0.25)=1.75
int((11 + 9 + 9) * 1.75) * 3.0 = 150
int(29*1.75)*3.0 = 50*3.0 = 150 (exactly)

and for the third test, multiplier is lowered by 0.25 (1.50-0.25)=1.25
int((11 + 9 + 9) * (1.25)) * 3.0 = 108
int(29*1.25)*3.0 = 36 * 3.0 = 108 (exactly)

so, there you go

P.S. : The only unconclusive exact computation I've found so far is just elemental Gorgets'... and probably DRGs' jump

Upon my request, codine agreed to test the effects of Magus Keffiyeh when casting on mobs strong to the spell being used. Although I doubt it, I wanted to check if it by any chance reduced the damage penalty.

[Karinya]

Interesting. I wonder if there's anything besides +skill you can use to improve PDIF, because it seems that if you're reduced to just your raw skill (and maybe STR/2?) you're going to pretty much always be seriously lacking in PDIF against exp mobs. It seems like it would be the equivalent of meleeing with no +attack gear or food, which does pathetic damage even with an A skill.

Clearly you can't get a good miss/resist test against such low level enemies, but based on my own experience and seeing others play BLU, the resist effect seems rather large. I eventually stopped trying to use Sprout Smack and Wild Oats on vermin because as useful as the effects would be (especially Wild Oats on a crawler), they just don't land.

[Armando]

Interesting. I wonder if there's anything besides +skill you can use to improve PDIF, because it seems that if you're reduced to just your raw skill (and maybe STR/2?) you're going to pretty much always be seriously lacking in PDIF against exp mobs. It seems like it would be the equivalent of meleeing with no +attack gear or food, which does pathetic damage even with an A skill.

I haven't been able to find anything short of reducing the enemy's Defense, but you're right on that point; I suspect Blue Magic Skill is run through some formula that increases it by some degree before calculating PDIF. Or maybe not, considering Blue spells tend to have higher-than-one multipliers and total DMG levels higher than the typical one-handed weapon. It'd be an interesting test, although a bit hard

Clearly you can't get a good miss/resist test against such low level enemies, but based on my own experience and seeing others play BLU, the resist effect seems rather large. I eventually stopped trying to use Sprout Smack and Wild Oats on vermin because as useful as the effects would be (especially Wild Oats on a crawler), they just don't land.

I've noticed the same thing. Accuracy is touchy enough on IT mobs, but trying to land Wild Oats on Altepa Beetles, even when I had gotten high enough that they were checking high VT or low IT, was pure hell. I'm not touching a spell the mob is strong to again unless I have a really compelling reason to do so XD

[Malacite]

Nice find! ^^b

Not to knock you for your effort, but I found this to be true myself just soloing rabbits in the dunes at 15. All my plant spells were doing a good 15-30 dmg more than my others, even headbutt. Okay, that might be a bit of an exaggeration with 30, but still it's not hard to notice. At least not in that example. I honestly couldn't tell when I was firing off beastmen spells against the Gigas in L.D.T., but then they're pretty strong to a 22 BLU so yah...


Again, awsome find! ^^b thanks for confirmation. Now if could just find that website for you people that has the exact effects of certain spells (like the defensive spikes spells from Sea) >_>

Btw, love that pic of Anemone ^^ she actually looks somewhat normal/sane in that shot.

[Armando]

Yeah, I did the same thing when soloing. Wild Oats and Sprout Smack were ripping those Canyon Rarabs apart. Also, I got some fairly good mileage out of Power Attack in the Jungles (and when I used Azure Lore with it, it seemed to crit plenty.)

Btw, love that pic of Anemone ^^ she actually looks somewhat normal/sane in that shot.

Hehe, thanks. I just had to screenshot it and turn it into an icon.

[Ryba]

Thanks for the research Armando. Yeah, the resists for spells the mob is strong against, in correlation, is absolutely rediculous lol, but makes sense at the same time lol

Expin on Crawlers I keep forgetting they're Vermin, which lowers the accuracy/effectiveness of Wild Oats. But surprisingly enough, my acc doesn't suffer too much with that. Not sure if +Acc has anything to do with that or not since it's still considered a "physical" spell. But I didn't get resisted too bad on them, like you're talking about Beetles, will have to report back when I get to that point to see if +Acc is indeed a factor for Wild Oats landing (regardless of correlation). I know that +Acc has ensured a 99% acc rate on my Head Butts though =P..which makes my NIN tanks happy lol (I know that has nothing to do with the subject at hand lol, just saying =P)

Not questioning correlation facts, but depending on magical or physical and having +Acc or +MAcc may assist these spells, since the way BLU uses these skills is somewhat different from how the mobs, themselves, use them.

Anyways, will report back after further testing, I like to figure out the intricacies of things like this lol Since much is still unknown about the full potential of our job.

Thanks again Armando. =)

-SM