[Armando]

Well, /RDM doesn't give status cures and gets Stoneskin/Blink significantly later than /WHM.

EDIT: Also, gets Cures later as well, never gets Erase, gets Magic Defense Bonus and Clear Mind I MUCH later, and never gets Clear Mind II. It does get Dispel, but that's only useful if you need it.

It's not that it doesn't have its own set of offerings at higher levels, because it does, but it's certainly not on the same level of general usability as /WHM.

[Takelli]

Yea, thats kinda obvious. But in later levels though (Like end game). Sure, you dont get RR or Raise. But who in end game really wants a R1. Most end game players are like R3 ONRY!

Phalanxe will give you what? -15 damage at most which can still save you. Yea, you lose the chance to erase stuff, but even if you are paralyzed you can sit there and fail 20+ casts (Happened to me on my rdm *shudder*))

[Armando]

But who in end game really wants a R1.

Soloers do.

Phalanxe will give you what? -15 damage at most which can still save you.

-9

Yea, you lose the chance to erase stuff, but even if you are paralyzed you can sit there and fail 20+ casts (Happened to me on my rdm *shudder*))

That's not the norm though.

Also have to consider that if you're willing to forsake status cures/erase/reraise and are anticipating taking damage, odds are you want /NIN unless the mob uses AoE magic attacks that go through shadows or you specifically need Dispel.

[Takelli]

So basically... The sub job you want depends on what you are fighting then right?

I can find dispell being useful, but it will rarely land though as it can be resisted.

Utsusemi can be useful unless you are fighting something that spams AoEs

/Whm is best for mobs that spam stat down moves, and some basic healing.

/Dnc works like /whm but doesn't get erase until later lvls and uses Tp. But using Animated Flourish then Snarl will pull hate off you if you happen to get it. Also, the healing uses stats only, not healing skill.

<Edit> Ah, I knew phalanx was a low number, didn't realize it was that low.

[Armando]

So basically... The sub job you want depends on what you are fighting then right?

When doesn't it?

I can find dispell being useful, but it will rarely land though as it can be resisted.

Have you even used the spell? Unless the monster has a fixed % chance to resist all spells of the dark element, Dispel resists are exceedingly rare.

Ah, I knew phalanx was a low number, didn't realize it was that low.

If subbed Phalanx were that strong, more people would use it.

[LadyKiKi]

Dispel works extremely well. Pots in sky are quite resistant to some bits of magic from my experience however. But in the Assault "Lamia 13" 3 BST/RDM rocks that assault. Only needs 2 crab each to win and you just simply sit there because the NPCs will never get hate/charmed once your crabs are on it.

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Armando

e you even used the spell? Unless the monster has a fixed % chance to resist all spells of the dark element, Dispel resists are exceedingly rare.

Then I must be very unlucky when it comes to getting resisted. I've tried it many times in Beseiged 60 Rdm all capped magic skills. Resists non stop. Even in a few exp parties Ive seen it resisted a few times.

[Malacite]

BST/WAR out damages BST/NIN by a good chunk in EXP parties. You do *not* need shadows for safety at all because in the event you pull hate you just snarl it to your pet. I've tried both, WAR sub kicks ass hands down. You just have to be careful about when you WS so that you don't snarl the mob when the tank can't get hate back/mob has a lot of HP left since most jugs aren't as tough as a player (not the DD ones anyway. CC can really take a beating)

[Yellowbluebus]

A little note on /rdm and bst.
RDM tanks use dispel for hate, along with sleeps etc. So, I'm not really certain this would be the best idea for a BST sub in general. The phalanx damage is negligible in the long run also. Unless you're using crabs and feel like running on your snarl timer, I wouldn't use this sub in any situation. Soloing, jug pet, endgame or in party.

As for the other subs, here's my take:
/WHM- Is nice for blink and stoneskins for monsters that like to aoe dia or other DoT that will knock your shadows down if you were /NIN. It's also nice for reraise if you're cheap like me and don't feel like buying a pin. Sneak and vis to get you where you're going. etc. /WHM is like a lifeline while soloing.

/NIN- Is nice for monsters who deal out monstorous amounts of damage that would wipe stoneskin anyway. Good for BCNM or anywhere you have to sub tank with your pet. I prefer this sub for soloing NMs etc. I have soloed Despot with this sub before quite easily.

/DNC- This sub is great for solo exp when you don't have to worry about dying etc. Good for skillups, monsters that aren't threatening your life every 5 seconds (have to wait for waltz to be up! lol) It's an ok change out for whm if you're willing not to use TP on WS (such as using a charmed monster thats DC) or if you're going somewhere you just don't want to deal with magic aggro. This is a horrible sub for amnesia mobs like imps or ladybugs (obviously)

/WAR- DD sub, I would only reccomend this in a TPBURN or meripo party. You're going to slow yourself down, even in a jug burn with this sub if someone else doesn't have someway of curing you. Great in an exp pt, but honestly, when's the last time you invited a BST to Nyzul birds.

/SCH- I honestly have not tried this myself, so I don't have much to say, but... Considering you get Sublimation and addendum: White, it might not be half bad. You won't get Stoneskins with this sub, but you do get a nice refresh tick with Gaudy+ Sublimation... If you're in an aht urghan or past area, you'll get a +3/tick refresh. However, personally I don't think that makes up for the stoneskins or shadows you'd be losing without /WHM or /NIN.

ON CHARM GEAR:
I have always found it better to have more CHR+ than Charm+, let me explain:
Now, I do use the BST Relic head, as my main Charm+ gear, but for ANY charming situation, It doesn't matter if you have charm+ if you cannot charm the mob in the first place.
If the mob starts beating on you, especially an IT for an event, or something, you go down while other people have used their two hours and are ticking. You put everyone's life on the line AND the NM by not being able to charm the mob. I know your BST is still young, and this is all endgame stuff, jargin whatever, but I just thought you should know before you get there <3

Also, on the CHR cap, I do believe there is one... I saw a post on it, someone testing it a long long time ago. Since I'm a mithra, I don't worry about the cap because my chr sucks so bad that I have to load up on anything I can get my hands on. I'll look it up if you're still interested.

Anyway, I hope this helps with your decision >.> sorry if I rambled a little.

[Armando]

RDM tanks use dispel for hate, along with sleeps etc. So, I'm not really certain this would be the best idea for a BST sub in general.

Not really a cause for concern. You won't be spamming it, nor will you be using +enmity gear (on the contrary.)

[Yellowbluebus]

Originally Posted by Armando

Not really a cause for concern. You won't be spamming it, nor will you be using +enmity gear (on the contrary.)

that's true, I'm just thinking with resists and recasts, it could build hate over time, which could be a problem in the long run with the straw of hate balance and beast XD
but yeah, not a cause for concern if you arent casting it very often.

[Armando]

It doesn't really get resisted unless you're fighting something weird. And Besieged mobs count as weird.

For most purposes the only factor is recasting.

[Yellowbluebus]

lol nice, I don't think I've ever taken it into beseiged or campaign, given I hate and have a huge bias against the sub on bst... and the rdm job in general >.> lol both rdm and blm... curse their usefulness and send them down to hades. Lord only knows why I have blm at 74. I should go delevel it again. /tangent

[Takelli]

Originally Posted by Yellowbluebus

If the mob starts beating on you, especially an IT for an event, or something, you go down while other people have used their two hours and are ticking. You put everyone's life on the line AND the NM by not being able to charm the mob. I know your BST is still young, and this is all endgame stuff, jargin whatever, but I just thought you should know before you get there <3

Yea, I can see that being an issue. I have had a few resists, but I do have +10 Chr, and my chr is 24 I think... lvl 19 Bsts/Dnc Mithra... Oh well. But the resists are fairly rare but when I get stronger the resists will be more likely I know.

As for the sub... I am going to be /dnc until 24 for when I get utsusemi then sub nin (*Shudder*) then go back to /dnc at lvl 30. Basically I am using the drain samba to help keep me alive as I am fighting, the pet and I share hate. Then when I get to 24 gonna shadow full time and let the pet take all the hate and only attack it when the monster has a lower hp. Then when I get to lvl 30 be /dnc and use curing Waltz to keep me alive. Weapon skilling isnt that important IMO, but it does help kill the mob faster.

[Yellowbluebus]

Sounds like a good plan to me just wait till you get release, it will be the greatest relief of your life lol happy hunting!