[Kerio]

Copying any ability would be cool from your pet. CC would always give you stoneskin ^^

Then again, I'd feel a bit like Kirby... except I'm not swallowing my friends whole >.>;

[KingOfZeal]

Originally Posted by Ziero

While a nice idea, it would be best to do something like that at the start of a game and stretch it out to be used by everyone. I mean, FFXI does have micro-systems in place similar to that ala tonberrys, Fomors and Pixies, but if they were to do it for entire classes of Mobs it would need to be a major addition to the game at the start. Otherwise it would totally throw off a lot of the mob placements and such in many zones.

Eh, I'm not quite so sure. This system, or at least the visible graph, wasn't available until the last expansion in EQOA. It's just as easy to start off with everyone at 0 (or whatever natural levels they decide -- IE, beastmen would start off with innate negatives and can't be raised, and other non-agroing mobs would start off neutral). The only thing is that it gives it a little unfair for those who need it (in this case, BSTs who already have mid-high level BSTs). But, they are arguably already proficient with what they're doing. In that case, those that would really need it would be the low-level people, who would be starting off at 0 anyway.

Personally I can see the system work, though it may not be quite as intended for obvious reasons.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I was actually thinking in different terms:

Since we already have Killer Traits, this means we are percieved as having the traits of other creatures than your target fears. Take those traits and covert them over to BLU-like "set" Killer Traits.

Setting a Killer Trait would increase your affinity with a pet that gives the corresponding Killer Trait, making them not only easier to charm, but also more inclined to give you additional forms of support. The opposing mob would be more resistant to charm and wouldn't give you extra help beyond the norm if you did manage to charm it.

A faction-like system would inevitably backfire on BSTs and stunt solo camp progress by adding loads of time of losing one faction type to gain the respect of other beasts.

While I did like the faction system in EQOA, it was often very timesinkish. This is why I became an Enchanter so I wouldn't get gangraped each time I walked into the dark elf city.

[Armando]

Not only that, can you imagine this in a party?
"WAR: Sorry guys, we can't kill Crawlers because it'll fuck up my faction standings on BST."

[KingOfZeal]

Who's to say a faction system would work anywhere and not just on BST? It could even be set up as a passive job trait, almost like wide scan is for BST and RNG.

And I wouldn't be suggesting that negative faction points would cause normal non-agring mobs to suddenly agro you, nor to suggest that enough positive faction points would cause agroing mobs to not agro you. In my mind, each family of mob would always respond the exact same way, with the exception of certain (non-agroing) mobs starting following you and giving you regen or whatever effect -- heck, make it a different effect for every family or type of mob. They could even behave more like pixies and, instead of following you, cast (or put on) an effect on you when you happen to be in range.

In this particular case, the effect you would get from the faction trait would go away if you lost enough points, but come back if/when you regain them (without redoing the prerequisite quest again). Given the nature of the system, no more than 7 traits could be in effect at any given time, and it could be a zero-sum system (all families start at 50 on a scale to 100, never dropping below 0 or above 100, every - say 10 - kills would give a point to the weaker family and take one from that family).

And also, with regard to the time sink factor -- isn't that the point of the entire game? In effect, these special abilities would only occur for those who have the time and will to get them -- if you don't have them, it wouldn't be that big of a deal, especially for a solo class. And any potential gain from these effects wouldn't be overpowering (I'm not suggesting a double STR effect or double charm strength type of effect), but would help, much like the 3hp regen does currently.

I'll be one of the first to admit that this idea is entirely non-plausible, or even if it was it would require a long time for SE to implement. However, in my mind, so is any kind of BST ability which has the same effect (mobs giving you certain effects like mandies in the past). To retrofit these onto an existing system, while not necessarily difficult, would be a long and tedious process.

[Duncan Idaho]

I like the idea of controlling your pets tp moves. Perhaps something SE could do is make this available to bst and change some of the mobs moves to aoe or party instead of self only. Everyone would want crab pets ^^

[Yellow Mage]

What I'm seeing is ideas to make Beastmaster more like Summoner. You see, the reason why that wouldn't work is just that: it would work too well. See, Summoner is kept well-balanced with large doses of MP required to actually do anything with their Pet-related Job Abilities on top of the perpetuation cost needed to keep an avatar out.

Also, in exchange for these oh-so-wonderful abilities twice every minute, Summoner essentially sacrifices any and all physical ability to be had, basically making the Summoner him/her-self a worthless body, whereas a Beastmaster can actually hit things worth jack and use a Pet. Obviously, giving them a Job Ability that offers any amount of control over what their pet does would break the game too much in Beastmaster's favor.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

See, Summoner is kept well-balanced...

Tread carefully.

-We still don't invite SMNs
-WARs don't randomly use a WS that does nothing but blind the (already blinded) opponent when they meant to deal damage. Choosing what WS to use doesn't seem overpowered to me.

I'd avoid any sort of "questing" for BST. I like the idea of trait/buff assimilation but it does seem a bit BLU-ish. But then, I honestly don't think that's a bad thing.

[Duncan Idaho]

BST would be regulated by what pets were available and by what SE makes AoE and self only target, not to mention our sic command has a much longer recast time on it than a summoner's pet commands.

If SE did implement this I could so see them making bubble curtain AoE and stoneskin self only, much akin to whm's shellra/stoneskin.

[Susurrus]

Originally Posted by Lmnop

Tread carefully.

-We still don't invite SMNs

And we also don't invite BSTs either for some reason I still don't understand, yet with A- Axe (same as WAR), and access to some of the best armor, they've got fairly good DD. Sure they don't have the JAs and as much STR so their damage can't match a WAR, but that's where the pet comes in and makes up for it if not more.

And I could go on about other jobs that are well balanced or stronger that don't get invites often.

So, this doesn't mean squat.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Yellow Mage

What I'm seeing is ideas to make Beastmaster more like Summoner. You see, the reason why that wouldn't work is just that: it would work too well. See, Summoner is kept well-balanced with large doses of MP required to actually do anything with their Pet-related Job Abilities on top of the perpetuation cost needed to keep an avatar out.

I don't see how that's what you're seeing.

First, the whole concept was inspired by mobs interacting with me as a player after I finished a specific quest. Given that BSTs work with mobs by nature, it stands to reason that such mobs could have some degree of affinity for BSTs as well.

No only that, my concept - which would be setting Killer Traits to gain this affinity - would also have another edge to the sword - I lose affinity and lower my ability to Charm the mobs I would be targeting with this Killer trait. That's is own con, because there are situations BST sometimes faces that charming the target is a last ditch effort to survive the encounter rather than die.

You'd be getting a beneficial effect of the mob granting you buffs, but you'd also increase that potential risk. That theme is recurring throughout many jobs in the game, including SMN which you make a point to discuss.

SMN gives up any physical prowess to weild the power of gods.
WAR's Berzerk ups attack, but lowers physical defense.
RNG's Snapshot hastes ranged attacks, but slows melee attacks by the same degree.
SCH has all these amazing JAs, yet as a direct result, they can't have nifty things like the most MAB gear and practically no Cure Potency gear at all.

That's balance.

Having a mob give BSTs or PT members with a BST might seem a little similar to what elementals do, but I'd prefer they be relatively subtle buffs and not equal to the power of what elementals or Avatars do. Hell, I prefer they be rather unique compared to what Elementals and Avatars do.

Hell, if SE would just add more Titles that did these nifty little things, I'd be less inclined to poke fun at people obsessed with having titles.

We have this quest with Babben, the Sky Warp Quest, Mythic Weapon Quest and a handful of others where a title actually has some form of meaning to the gameplay other than epeen. I'd love to see more of that.

[Lmnop]

Originally Posted by Susurrus

And we also don't invite BSTs either for some reason I still don't understand, yet with A- Axe (same as WAR), and access to some of the best armor, they've got fairly good DD. Sure they don't have the JAs and as much STR so their damage can't match a WAR, but that's where the pet comes in and makes up for it if not more.

And I could go on about other jobs that are well balanced or stronger that don't get invites often.

So, this doesn't mean squat.

Here, let me make this clear:

Don't turn this into an argument about Summoner.

Which is what happens if someone says SMN is balanced when many of us disagree.

-----

On Topic: I really like this idea. However, I don't think I like the idea of this being a constant, slowly built thing. I'd go for something that starts over every time you zone. Like TP and SCH charges, it builds up much quicker than fame/mob hate but does not have any lasting effects.

[Susurrus]

Originally Posted by Lmnop

Here, let me make this clear:

Don't turn this into an argument about Summoner.

Which is what happens if someone says SMN is balanced when many of us disagree.

If you look closely I didn't say SMN, Summoner, or anything similar in my post...way to read.

[Yellow Mage]

Oshi-

/em runs to get the Fire Extinguisher
/equip range "Fire Exting."
/ra thread

I had wondered how many of you were actually going to take that post seriously, but I had no intention to start flames from it. Please, I ask of you, go back to that post in question, and ask yourself "is that guy actually serious?" Except not rhetorically, actually ask yourselves that.

The only line I drew between BST and SMN was that you guys were basically asking for an Ability to tell your pet to do a specific action, like the Blood Pact Abilities, but obviously that was where the similarities would end. I just ran with that and made a joke saying that, "oh, if Beastmaster actually had any control over their pets, that would be stepping on Summoner's toes."

Obviously, what I really believe is that there is no reason any job that uses a pet shouldn't have more control than they currently have, and Summoner itself is a whole different issue entirely. <_<; Remind me never to use sarcasm on the internet again without this little guy:

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I think the reason behind what Lmnop is saying is that once something becomes about SMN, wherever it is spoken about, it turns into a SMN Royale cryfest and then we can expect Malacite to decend upon the thread and list all his dislikes about a job he's hardly levelled.

We're not terribly far away from SE starting to toss out teasers over the next update, so let's just wait and see what happens there. I've more or less been fairly right about the flow of job updates this year, so I'm fairly certain jobs like SMN will see something from it.

Let's keep this particular topic about BST, what with this being a BST job forum and all