/bst and charm - Final Fantasy XI :: Dreams in Vana'diel :: Community

DR2D2 · 01-06-2007, 12:58 PM

The other day I leveled my rdm back to level 30 with the sub-job of level 13 bst at Burbumi pennusula and found that I was able to charm level 25-30 leeches and dehlmi(sorry about spelling) even though most of the guides say I shouldn't be able to(most guides say a bst can only charm upto 5 levels higher). What I figure is that charm is based on chr level as well as a factor of bst level And main job level. What that means is that a level 13 subbed bst should be able to charm at least upto the level of the main job(without miss-charming most of the time). The other thing I noticed was the length of charm was the same as when I was charming level 14-16 mobs(the length should have been ALOT less). Am I correct in my observation from what others have noticed? Is there any "real" way to measure this?

Just thought it was courious seeing that this goes against what most of the guides are saying.

RunningDemon · 01-06-2007, 01:28 PM

Has been talked about before in many threads. Charm is based on the actual (non-cappped as SJ) BST level. If your BST is the level of the main it is subbed to, you can charm as well as a BST (with different CHR).

DR2D2 · 01-06-2007, 01:41 PM

That's what is throwing me off. My bst level is only 13 but was able to charm things that were 12-15 levels higher(which happened to be 1-2 levels below my main job). Since my bst level is less than half of my main job it wouldn't make sense for me to be able to charm things that are so much higher than my bst level(my bst level was not capped-it is only 13 as both main and sub job at that point)

TenchiHawkwing · 01-06-2007, 02:00 PM

I don't subcribe to the common theory of BST main level being the main factor in charm success, if it even is a factor at all.

It may have some small influence, but not enough to call it noticable. I can charm Magmatic Eruca with a pretty good success rate and my BST is 58.

RunningDemon · 01-06-2007, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by TenchiHawkwing

I don't subcribe to the common theory of BST main level being the main factor in charm success, if it even is a factor at all.

It may have some small influence, but not enough to call it noticable. I can charm Magmatic Eruca with a pretty good success rate and my BST is 58.

Then you are wrong. People have gone out and gotten different /tame results as their BST main leveled. Sorry to say, anyone who does not think that BST main affects /BST charm is wrong.

DR2D2 · 01-06-2007, 03:30 PM

I agree that the level of bst has to have something to do with it, but how much is the question? If the level of bst is the only factor then at level 13 I should not be able to charm level 26-28 leeches as easy as I was able to(like I said around 90% sucess rate). Therefore, the only other factor which we have is my level 29rdm(which was my main job) unless there is a factor in the game which bumps up the success rate of charm to the level of the main job when bst is subbed. I'm courious because if this is the case it would make leveling that much easier for times when parties are not available or good. I will experiment in rollenberry fields(on toughs) to see if the farther away from my bst level will influence charm rate.

Icemage · 01-06-2007, 03:38 PM

Bear in mind that your CHR score increases as you gain levels.

Also note that Charm is a Light-based attack, and Leeches are weak to Light, so your charm success rate will naturally be better than expected.

Icemage

DR2D2 · 01-07-2007, 06:55 AM

So then charm success is based on CHR level(which is somewhat based on BST, but also based on main job-as that will also give CHR) AND also the level of mob along with type of mob. I think I am starting to figure it out. So that would mean that as long as your main job is 1 that keeps giving an increase in CHR(or u increase CHR through gear) It is possible to continue to level up the main job without having to keep leveling up bst(if your setup is /BST). Lastly, how would I determine charm duration(would that increase with CHR or is that determined by something else(I forgot what determines duration)

Armando · 01-07-2007, 06:59 AM

Haven't done much research on it but the primary factor on success is based on your CHR, so even if your /BST is 1 you should be able to get away with charming easy stuff that's not strong to Light. However, how long you hold a mob depends on its level relative to yours; I assume that aspect of it would be influenced by your main job and full BST level. I've seen (Job Level + BST Level)/2 suggested for what the game compares the mob's level to.

Icemage · 01-07-2007, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by DR2D2

So then charm success is based on CHR level(which is somewhat based on BST, but also based on main job-as that will also give CHR) AND also the level of mob along with type of mob. I think I am starting to figure it out. So that would mean that as long as your main job is 1 that keeps giving an increase in CHR(or u increase CHR through gear) It is possible to continue to level up the main job without having to keep leveling up bst(if your setup is /BST). Lastly, how would I determine charm duration(would that increase with CHR or is that determined by something else(I forgot what determines duration)

The real level of your BST job still has a lot to do with your success rate. While your CHR level affects the outcome, as well as partial resistance rates, having a fully levelled BST at the same or higher level than your current main will improve your Charm results (tested and proven many times by other players).

Charm duration is always a set amount, barring resists. I don't remember the exact time - want to say it's base of 15 (career BSTs, check me on this?) minutes on a full effect, with duration decreasing as you get partial resists (can be as little as a few seconds with things that are higher level than you that get a near-full resist).

The only other way to extend charm is with the 2 hour Familiar ability, or by using Charm+ gear (my understanding is that Charm+ gear does nothing EXCEPT extend your Charm duration?).

Icemage

Armando · 01-07-2007, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Charm duration is always a set amount, barring resists. I don't remember the exact time - want to say it's base of 15 (career BSTs, check me on this?) minutes on a full effect, with duration decreasing as you get partial resists (can be as little as a few seconds with things that are higher level than you that get a near-full resist).

I've seen pretty compelling info that for each level difference (i.e. -1, 0, +1, etc.) between you and the mob there's a specific duration (barring resists.) These values also changed a bit as you level up, but I'm a bit hazy on that one. I think it was something close to 3 minutes on EMs.

Quote:

he only other way to extend charm is with the 2 hour Familiar ability, or by using Charm+ gear (my understanding is that Charm+ gear does nothing EXCEPT extend your Charm duration?).

Yeah, that's what I've read too.