[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by Keftenk
go get the quote yourself..if there is even one ;P

well, you are the one making false comments...

Thing about Axe, it attacks fast, but for low dmg compared to the Scythe, the only time I ever gain hate from the pet is if my pet has a freak accident and misses 3-5 times >< or if I get freakishly lucky and get 3-4 criticals in a row for 70-100 dmg ;P

regardless, i can get more done in one hit with a Scythe than i could ever hope to do with an axe...

it's just my preference tho...

about the charming resistaning and what not; spiders dont have a great charm resistance, but they do have a bitchy one. Corsette+1, Bird Whistle, and Monster Signa worked about 85% of the time. Yet, I ask you this. If you are so PRO on Warrior, why do you have all of that CHR stuff? Unless, do you use /equip macros? I would think as a BST/WAR you would get def+ rings or dex+ or something.

85%+ charm success sounds good to me...

and the reason why i pick up CHR+ is because my main function is still that of a BST. and that being said, charming is the name of the game...

since belts, rings, and etc. are mostly used for stat increases, i just go for CHR+. with a WAR sub i already get 3+ STR, 1+ AGI, and 1+ DEX in comparison to a WHM sub. the only equipment other than armor that i use strictly for DEF is my back mantle....

Seblina Milk + Higher HP + Higher Def isnt...that great; first you don't have much more HP and not much more Def then a BST/WHM. The only big def plus you get is the head, which protect nearly nullifies. But, meh...im near the point where im ditching my hairpin for my BST AF4.

like i said, that stuff works just fine...

and Protect doesn't nullify a Head peice. not by a long shot....

a WAR sub gets 10+ DEF as a job trait at level 20. this is nullified by the 10+ DEF from Protect. but at that point you're still losing the entire factor of your headgear armor...

and it only gets worse. by the time you get Protect II (20 + DEF), i'll have Defender. Defender gives roughly 30+ DEF at that lvl and i already have 10+ DEF from my job trait. and at that level, you'll be missing out on a Raptor helm (18+ DEF). so my 58+ DEF is WAYYYYY better than your 20+ DEF from Protect II (which costs about 28 mp per cast)...

a difference of -38 DEF is pretty damn bad....

and this is not to mention that Defender naturally scales up with level the number of DEF that you have. so i will continually have more DEF than you as time goes on....

Also, I noticed BST/nearly anything can work if you have a crap load of gil for loads and loads of food. Waaaay later in the game I plan on doing BST/RDM and bringing Rolanberry Pies (+50MP) and Yagudo Drinks (120MP regen over 3minutes) and go solo hard ass shit with Phalanx and what not ;P Of course, this wont happen til I have a crap load of gil. Yag drink is 2k on my server and Rolanberry Pie is 1.8k i believe.

I know Selbina Milk isnt that much; but wont you think you will upgrade to better items with more and more hp -- I.E: Boiled Crabs and what not? If you have a shit load of gil, then I should apologize for all of this; but if not ~~:

it's not that expensive at all...

Selbina Milk is about 500 gil a stack in Windurst. i carry a Hi-Potion and a Potion but i rarely use them. almost never. boiled crayfish is also dirt cheap....

and since i cook, upgrading is also extremely cheap....

a "shit load of gil" helps, but it's not that bad...

[Keftenk]

well, whenever i want i can make false statements ^^ lol ~~:


about the scythe, meh...both are good; but wouldnt you want to finish the monster as fast as possible? Maybe Scythe is good right now, but indeed...lv Axe at the same time, by 55 you will probably favor Rampage over the Scythes Vorpal Scythe.


85% IS good, but its the ocassional times when it fails and you just get screwed over it in a crowded area and Tame doesnt work. Thats the bad thing about BST, the higher the lv you go the more you have to travel to find good xp, which in result have a lot more enemies in the same area :"( The +3 STR is probably the only good thing from core stats that really makes a noteable difference.


heh, i forgot about that DEF+ from lv 10 oops? -38? umm, Raptor Helm or AF4 helm...no more hairpins. So its more like -20 DEF or so, which is about 8-14 dmg less. (Doing a test from Protect giving 10 def; slashing 4-7 dmg)


Like I said before, Selbina's Milk is cheap, i know that; but how much is Selbina's Milk replenishing? You will surely be wanting a better item that replenishes more HP by lv 40+ when you get AOEd and can't really find a safe spot because there are soo many other mobs around (Crawlers Nest ><!!!!!!)


However, with all the spending you do; I'm wondering how long it will take you to buy your lv 40 gear.

Complete new lv 40 was 171k for me; not including the Monster Signa -- if you buy that its 280-300k (yet, I got mine from the NM mob)

My lv 60 stuff is going to be 470k ><!! 320k just for the axe, ugh ><!! It just continues to scale up; being 2million at lv 70 for Juggernaut :|" Yet, getting gil at that point is completley different from this..

[Antwan_3000]

well i only made reference to the lack of a Raptor helm (or any helm for that matter) becasue almost every BST/WHM i see is wearing a hairpin of some sort for MP+. even you mentioned in a previous thread that you usually wear a hairpin...

if that's the case, (according to your calculations) you'd be taking about 16-28 more pts damage than me per hit. that's pretty bad...

heck, instead of being hit for like 20 pts of damage, you'll be hit for around 36 or 48. that's going to add up pretty damn quick....

and this is compounded by the notion that you may be using two Electrum Rings (HP -20 MP +20) or Astral Rings (Converts 25 HP to MP). if that's the case, i could potentially have 98-108 more HP than you from the start...

having the ability to heal is nice, but taking 16-28 more pts of damage per hit and starting off with 98-108 less HP than a BST/WAR equiped with Sheild Earrings (comparitively) is the potential trade-off. it may seem unlikely on paper, but there are plenty BST/WHMs that chose to go this path. heck, even you've been quoted in a previous thread as saying you prefer to wear a hairpin/electrum rings combo. which means that you fall directly into this situation.....

don't get me wrong. i'm not saying that BST/WAR is the "better" choice. BST/WHM is the more "efficient" choice, but if you ask me BST/WAR isn't terribly far behind...

i think the problems and misconceptions come from:

1) seasoned BST/WHMs "killing time" with a BST/WAR combo and then they decide that "it sucks" simply becasue they can't heal themselves. yet they probably didn't even take the time to properly equip the BST/WAR in the first place....

you gotta really spend some time with this combo in order to really appreciate what it can do for you. the WHM sub benefits are quite obvious. a WAR sub has a more subtle touch...

and 2) n00b BST/WARs who hit a "wall" and decide that BST/WHM is the far superior choice. this is primarily because it takes a pretty good while to really get the true benefits of this combo. aside a Defense bonus at level 20, you won't really get anything nice until level 50. you'll get Provoke at level 10, which really isn't all that great since you're gonna primarily want to let your pet do most of the work. you'll get Berserk at level 30, which is only good for PT situations in my opinion....

but once you get level 50, it's all good. you'll get Defender (30+ DEF that scales up with level. it also lowers attack power so your pet can hold hate even better). and you'll also get Double Strike which has obvious benefits...

plus this get better with an attack bonus at lvl 60 as a job trait. plus you get War Cry at lvl 70, which is yet another attack bonus...

but up until then, the benefits are mostly hidden...

things like the natural +38 HP, +3 STR, +1 AGI, and +1 DEX. and the fact that since you don't need MP items, you can more readily stack DEF, HP, and CHR+ items/eqiupment. but these benefits go unnoticed by most...

but with a WHM sub, you'll be getting a new spell pretty frequently. this tends to appeal to more people more readily and understandably so...

but so far, i'm quite satisified with my choice. and as things get naturally tougher as time goes on, i will also have new abilities that will compensate for that increased difficulty....

but anyway, as far as me getting the money together for my higher level armor, i can only assume that my income will also scale up as the levels progress. so that basically evens out....

the idea of me actually using the food and/or drinks that i cook as apart of my craft isn't gonna be a huge factor....

[Bigbird]

Damn, i feel like trying War sub out now, just to see how much better or worst it would be.

[Antwan_3000]

maybe you should...

but considering how much time you've put into a WHM sub, you might not enjoy it as much as i do. and as i've said before, the WHM sub does prove to be the more efficient choice...

but for anyone interested, just keep these rules in mind:

1) when sending an "even" against a "tough", just stand back out of the AoE range. just pop in and slash the mob when you see it start to get the advantage (for me the Scythe is the better choice for this). if/when you get aggroed, stop attacking and let the pet regain aggro. after the pet gets the hate back, run outside the AoE range. wash, rinse, repeat. you can also toss out a heal (with pet food) every now and then if you don't feel like stepping into the fray and potentially getting aggro....

typically, you're only going to have to step in once or twice. once your pet dies, finish the job...

basically, all you're doing is "damage control". you're just trying to physically keep the battle between you pet and the beast as even as possible....

this is the most crucial and tricky part because since you have no debuffs, the "tough" will usually always get the better of your "even"....

this is where the true "skill" of a BST/WAR lies. you can't just switch subjobs and expect to be good at this right off the bat. you really have to get a feel for it imo....

<edit#2> obviously, someone (*cough* Keftenk) forgot that this is "guide to lvl 30" thread. that being said, i didn't mention the "release" ability. with "release", you won't have to wait around for the mob to kill your pet and you have more freedom to attack alongside your pet in order to get the mob's HP as low as possible before you "release" your pet for full xp....

2) you're going to have to rest. period. but that doesn't mean you have to stop fighting. if you perfect your timing in rule #1, you can effectively minimize your sustained damage and easily exp chain 2-3+ "toughs" before you need to heal...

when healing just put 2 "evens" together or use jug pets...

you can also use jug pets to finish off the "even" or "tough" mob in case it finishes off your "even" pet too quickly. stacks of Carrot Broth are dirt cheap and work perfectly with this...

3) use the appropriate equipment and items. just try and make good use of your slots since you have no need for MP+ stats. i would go for DEF+, CHR+, and HP+ stats. also use DEF food and Selbina Milk. once again, Selbina Milk is for HP regen is also relatively cheap. it helps out when you're tryin to chain some "toughs"...

all in all, BST/WAR is an aquired taste. i happen to like it alot...

-peace...

<edit#1> i also just wanted to say that this stuff is only a "strategy". just like with any other type of situation, you have to allow for a certain amount of error...

for example, when i first logged on yesterday i got a exp chain #3 with little to no effort in one area. but later on i went to another area and some of the "toughs" were alittle too "tough" for the "even" pets in the area (probably 2-3+ lvls higher than my "even", but they weren't quite "very tough"). i just had to make a mental note of that and go after the "toughs" that were more closely rated to my "evens" in order to get some good exp chains going...

"common sense" goes a long way...

[Lily]

Selbina Milk restores 40 HP (1 HP every 3 seconds) over a 2 minute period.

At lvl 42 bst / 21 whm, we get the Regen spell. That's 150 hp ( 5 HP every 3 seconds) over a 1 minute 30s period. It's only 15 mana too. One of my most beloved spells.

And as a sidenote I'm using the alluring headband. This is something like, +6 def, +1 chr, and +5 evasion, I think. I thought that was a better deal than the ribbon, at the time anyway.

[Keftenk]

Originally posted by Antwan_3000
1) when sending an "even" against a "tough", just stand back out of the AoE range. just pop in and slash the mob when you see it start to get the advantage (for me the Scythe is the better choice for this). if/when you get aggroed, stop attacking and let the pet regain aggro. after the pet gets the hate back, run outside the AoE range. wash, rinse, repeat. you can also toss out a heal (with pet food) every now and then if you don't feel like stepping into the fray and potentially getting aggro....

Your dead, you will NEVER make it past lv 40. Places like the Crawlers Nest is just swarming with too many monsters that argo, there is no room for you to run...very little room as it is, and your precious 40hp Selbina Milk wont do much ~~;

I am really sorry for you, because unless you are some extrodinary lucky BST then you are gonna be forced to pt from lv 40+ for a LONG time.






oh yah, didnt really pay much attention to protect 2, but it gives 25 def, thats another 5. and from the looks of it; you will have to upgrade from Selbinas Milk by lv 30+ because you will have such a mass of hp and you will be getting hit for nearly 40 damage a pop, most likely less -- depends on the mob.

[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by Keftenk


Your dead, you will NEVER make it past lv 40. Places like the Crawlers Nest is just swarming with too many monsters that argo, there is no room for you to run...very little room as it is, and your precious 40hp Selbina Milk wont do much ~~;

I am really sorry for you, because unless you are some extrodinary lucky BST then you are gonna be forced to pt from lv 40+ for a LONG time.






oh yah, didnt really pay much attention to protect 2, but it gives 25 def, thats another 5. and from the looks of it; you will have to upgrade from Selbinas Milk by lv 30+ because you will have such a mass of hp and you will be getting hit for nearly 40 damage a pop, most likely less -- depends on the mob.

haha...

i really don't know what your problem is. do you not realize by now that i adapt my gameplan for various situations?....

did you read the "<edit>" at the bottom of that post?...

i try to stand outside of the AoE range if it's viable. if i have no choice but to stand in close proximity then i will. it's not really an issue. at that point, i may decide to fight alongside my pet the entire time in order to kill the mob as quickly as possible.

heck, when i get "Release" i won't have to wait around for the mob to kill my pet, genius. i can fight the mob side by side with my pet if i want and when the mob is near death i can use "Release" for the full xp. i didn't really feel it was necessary to mention that since this a "guide to lvl 30" thread...

regardless, maybe the concepts of "adaptation" and "common sense" don't play a huge role in the way you do things in FFXI, but don't assume that i feel the same way...

lol,... i wish i didn't have such a load with college and my job right now. i'd love to have more time to play FFXI. it would be great to grind my way on up and make it thru the levels when the Crawler's Nest would be a viable place to level and see what your next excuse will be.... lol..

and as far as Selbina Milk is concerned, it's only used as a slight healing aid. for example, if i've already chained a couple "toughs" and my HP is in the yellow, i may pop a milk while i run to find the next kill. it's really no issue. normally, i don't even use the milk unless another juicy "even" or "tough" is near by and i really want to get another chain. it's not like Selbina Milk is what i base my entire game on. it just happens to be a cheap and stackable curative. it definitely doesn't hurt anything...

and last time i had Protect II cast on me, it only gave me 20+ DEF. but i'll take your word for it. i'm probably just not remembering correctly. but that's still only 15+ DEF more than my natural Defense boost job trait. i'll still have more DEF than you at that point due to the Raptor Helm that you decided to pass up, lol.

and regardless, Defender still gives the much better DEF, with no MP cost, has an equal duration/recast, and the DEF scales up with level...

good luck trying to stretch out that 25+ DEF until you get Protect III at level 94....

[Dark-Cress]

well, bst/war is good in PTs, but soloing bst/whm is best.
War sub isnt good for solo you get def and str boosts, but you dont need it, even if you get hit your pet will get aggro back in like 2 seconds. The best thing about bst/whm you can tip the scales for your monster a bit (paralize, dia, etc) so in the long run its more productive.
plus you get stoneskin eventually, that helps loads.

[Antwan_3000]

yea i feel ya on the debuffs...

but even those aren't garaunteed....

when i subbed my WAR with BLM (in preparation for DRK) and i was in a PT, my debuffs would constantly get resisted. Blind would work every now and then against a "tough" (but i would normally have to cast it more than once) and you can forget using it against a VT or IT. and most of the time, i didn't really notice the huge difference in Bio (which lowers the target's Attack power)...

and i would only assume that my debuffs would never be as good as a full-fledged BLM and it only makes sense. i'm basically trying to de-buff mobs that a stronger than me with magic skills based off of a job that's half my level...

but obviously, peeps make due. i'm just saying that it's not like you're garaunteed those benefits...

paralize (and i beleive, slow) can get resisted from time to time, while Dia might not have a significant effect on the target's DEF....

personally, i like the curatives and enhancings of a WHM sub more than the potential debuffs....

[Keftenk]

Originally posted by Antwan_3000

i try to stand outside of the AoE range if it's viable. if i have no choice but to stand in close proximity then i will. it's not really an issue. at that point, i may decide to fight alongside my pet the entire time in order to kill the mob as quickly as possible.

heck, when i get "Release" i won't have to wait around for the mob to kill my pet, genius. i can fight the mob side by side with my pet if i want and when the mob is near death i can use "Release" for the full xp. i didn't really feel it was necessary to mention that since this a "guide to lvl 30" thread...

regardless, maybe the concepts of "adaptation" and "common sense" don't play a huge role in the way you do things in FFXI, but don't assume that i feel the same way...

OMG! you have NO clue how mobs act in places...like the Crawlers Nest. If you are lucky to find a safe spot, then go for it, but usually you wont. So, either two choices, fight up close and take AOE's; (Silence Gas - 300-600dmg, Dark Spore - 200-500,dmg Wild Rage - 100-250dmg, Poison Breath - 100-150dmg, Cursed Sphere - 70-200dmg, Venom 100-170dmg; just some of them AOEs that cause GREAT problems) or stand back and hope you dont get argo, and if you do, your gonna at least take 30-90 dmg before you can get that argo away. Its inevitable...you will get AOE'd one way or another; how do you plan on healing a 300dmg AOE or single attack as it is?

And, i know that you can avoid some of the AOEs by going behind the mob and what not, but some of these are not avoidable and they are QUICK skills, no time to run from them.

Also, about your stupid "adaption" speech; I'm a BST, why wouldnt it play a huge role?! I am at the point where I have to move to new areas and fight new monsters every 1-2 lvs.


Hmmm, I thought Protect II was 20def too, but its 25 I guess ~~; Protect III is 40def

[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by Keftenk




OMG! you have NO clue how mobs act in places...like the Crawlers Nest. If you are lucky to find a safe spot, then go for it, but usually you wont. So, either two choices, fight up close and take AOE's; (Silence Gas - 300-600dmg, Dark Spore - 200-500,dmg Wild Rage - 100-250dmg, Poison Breath - 100-150dmg, Cursed Sphere - 70-200dmg, Venom 100-170dmg; just some of them AOEs that cause GREAT problems) or stand back and hope you dont get argo, and if you do, your gonna at least take 30-90 dmg before you can get that argo away. Its inevitable...you will get AOE'd one way or another; how do you plan on healing a 300dmg AOE or single attack as it is?

And, i know that you can avoid some of the AOEs by going behind the mob and what not, but some of these are not avoidable and they are QUICK skills, no time to run from them.

well, at level 30 my WAR has about 500+ HP. i don't think i'll want to mess with stuff that deals AoE damage of 600 at around that level... :spin:

bottomline: i'll figure it out...

i don't need to try and prove how before i even get there. i'll see when the time comes...

Also, about your stupid "adaption" speech; I'm a BST, why wouldnt it play a huge role?! I am at the point where I have to move to new areas and fight new monsters every 1-2 lvs.

actually, i wasn't severely serious in that comment. i was only making reference your "stupid" assumption that i'm going to run around blindly in a closed-in area full of aggressive mobs..

Hmmm, I thought Protect II was 20def too, but its 25 I guess ~~; Protect III is 40def

yea, it's 40+ DEF at level 94. good luck getting to that point anytime soon (especially since the current level cap is 75)...lol..

[Keftenk]

well, once you get into the "dangerous" parts of BST lving, 40+ your only gonna have 700+ HP and your either going to have to mass easys and decents for...forever or have to take them

[Lily]

Awtawn, your spells were resisted probably because in parties you take on ITs all the time. Even primary mages get their spells resisted a fair bit by ITs.

As a BST, I think it'd be suicide to take on ITs solo. I mean, you'll be doing decent challenges, even matches and maybe some toughs. The enfeebling spells there will succeed more. So they *do* help.

[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by Lily
Awtawn, your spells were resisted probably because in parties you take on ITs all the time. Even primary mages get their spells resisted a fair bit by ITs.

As a BST, I think it'd be suicide to take on ITs solo. I mean, you'll be doing decent challenges, even matches and maybe some toughs. The enfeebling spells there will succeed more. So they *do* help.

oh yea, i agree that they are beneficial...

i just said that they can get resisted from time to time....