[The Mauva Syndicate]

Getting to the BRD levels where I am expected to pull,sleep, buff, pull another etc and I'm looking to see who amongst our BRD's uses what to pull.

So, what spell or skill (throwing - as an E skill?) do you use to pull as BRD?

Thanks kids

[TheGrandMom]

Elegy

[Malacite]

Elegy onry

[The Mauva Syndicate]

This begs the question. If Elegy is what a BRD needs to use to effectively Pull, Why have I been asked to Pull since the mid 20's - are people that dumb? or do they just assume I'm using something else - which will, of course, be less effective?

[Mog]

Originally Posted by The Mauva Syndicate

This begs the question. If Elegy is what a BRD needs to use to effectively Pull, Why have I been asked to Pull since the mid 20's - are people that dumb? or do they just assume I'm using something else - which will, of course, be less effective?

Why not? Mid 20's you have access to sub /nin and Utsusemi: Ichi. You can pull with other songs too.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Who, Me?

Nope my highest job is mid 40's and I still don't have NIN unlocked (who wants to come help me beat on leech's?) - but when I come to a PT BRD/WHM and am asked to pull - it just makes me wonder (not that Im bitching - I prefer to pull, since so many - SO MANY - people can't pull effectively and that equals death)

[Mog]

Originally Posted by The Mauva Syndicate

Who, Me?

Nope my highest job is mid 40's and I still don't have NIN unlocked (who wants to come help me beat on leech's?) - but when I come to a PT BRD/WHM and am asked to pull - it just makes me wonder (not that Im bitching - I prefer to pull, since so many - SO MANY - people can't pull effectively and that equals death)

BRD/WHM should never pull. Never never never. If your party thinks you should pull, tell the samurai to go buy a bow and some cheap arrows.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by The Mauva Syndicate

This begs the question. If Elegy is what a BRD needs to use to effectively Pull, Why have I been asked to Pull since the mid 20's - are people that dumb? or do they just assume I'm using something else - which will, of course, be less effective?

People are that dumb. BRDs and CORs, when asked to pull, are supposed to "stage pull" (pull and sleep), this is a bad tactic to be using as a BRD at low levels because you don't have access to equipment that's going to help lullaby stick very well. COR doesn't even have the ability to stage pull until 40 tops and if I remember correctly, BRD won't have its first elegy until you hit the jungles.

Originally Posted by Mog

BRD/WHM should never pull. Never never never. If your party thinks you should pull, tell the samurai to go buy a bow and some cheap arrows.

I've pulled BRD/WHM and COR/RNG for the bulk both jobs. Gee, I must have been doing something wrong

You can pull without getting hit, all it takes is knowledge of terrain and max safe distance to pull. The majority of mobs pulled, sans flies and Tigers, before ToA levels do not exceed the player in movement speed. So you can very well pull safely with /WHM, provided your main tank knows that its more important to voke off the puller than it is to draw his weapon first.

But again, people are that dumb.

/NIN and pulling are not mutally exclusive. Having a ranged weapon does not mean you have become the ideal puller, either. A puller with a high delay weapon will lose out to other pullers with lower delay and BRDs in general.

With the advent of Level Sync, the playing field has changed a little. THFs with Machine Crossbows and CORs with Peacemakers, if synced down, will provide a BRD with some serious competition. Delay of weapon is not changed by level sync and the delay on these weapons are pretty low.

Not to mention, BRDs pull by spell, which means they have to get in closer to the mob and can be interrupted if the mob moves out of range.

Personally, I'll level /NIN for BRD when BRD/NIN has some practical use outside of EXP/Merit. I don't need it to solo BRD because solo BRD is a joke and have superior options for soloing as it stands. BRD/NIN tanking is dead and rightfully so.

[Mog]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

I've pulled BRD/WHM and COR/RNG for the bulk both jobs. Gee, I must have been doing something wrong

Some situations don't allow for long-ranged pulling. So when you're being an MP sponge you still want to pull, instead of the thief or samurai who has third eye? < .>

[KingOfZeal]

That's not what you said though. You said

Originally Posted by Mog

BRD/WHM should never pull. Never never never.

(Emphasis mine)

You never said "...can only pull in some situations" or "...can't pull in certain situations", you said "...should never pull".

And I join BBQ: I've pulled many times on BRD/WHM. I can't say I was incredibly good (namely because I felt that, you know, the thief should pull, and I was never able to really sync up my pulling with my songs), but I would hit fairly consistent chain 5s. There are situations where I wouldn't pull (or simply couldn't), but really there aren't that many of those from my experience.

To the topic on hand, Elegy. In the lower levels I would use requiem and sleep any links (sleep doting can also help with some mob abilities that can be interrupted like that: the mob is still asleep for a second or two, which is often enough to interrupt it), just so long as it's known that the first had a dot and couldn't be slept. I also seem to recall pulling using WHM spells like dia or some other enfeeble, though it obviously didn't last all too long like that. If you knew something would happen right at the beginning of the fight, you might also be able to use the Threnody's of the element needed to get a little extra boost in damage to help offset the lack of a slow.

[Callisto]

I pull Einherjar every run as BRD/WHM, I pulled every party from 24 to 73 as BRD/WHM, and it's fine. The main bonus to Elegy pulling is that the animation seems to wrap up and let you run a second faster than other songs so you get a head start on the mob, generally keeping enough space to fire off Lullaby before getting hit. Threnody is the next best option, if Elegy is down use that. Typically Light Threnody to make Lullaby easier to land.

[Mog]

Originally Posted by KingOfZeal

That's not what you said though. You said


(Emphasis mine)

You never said "...can only pull in some situations" or "...can't pull in certain situations", you said "...should never pull".

And I join BBQ: I've pulled many times on BRD/WHM. I can't say I was incredibly good (namely because I felt that, you know, the thief should pull, and I was never able to really sync up my pulling with my songs), but I would hit fairly consistent chain 5s. There are situations where I wouldn't pull (or simply couldn't), but really there aren't that many of those from my experience.

To the topic on hand, Elegy. In the lower levels I would use requiem and sleep any links (sleep doting can also help with some mob abilities that can be interrupted like that: the mob is still asleep for a second or two, which is often enough to interrupt it), just so long as it's known that the first had a dot and couldn't be slept. I also seem to recall pulling using WHM spells like dia or some other enfeeble, though it obviously didn't last all too long like that. If you knew something would happen right at the beginning of the fight, you might also be able to use the Threnody's of the element needed to get a little extra boost in damage to help offset the lack of a slow.

Guess I'll rephrase then. As long as you have a fair bit of distance and don't get eaten alive, then brd/whm is fine for pulling. (I still think a DD with /nin should pull if there's no elegy, but that's just me)

[Malacite]

When subbing WHM pre-elegy, use Dia to pull. If you use a threnody or requiem, you run into 2 problems;

1) Elegy has more range for some reason

2) The will momentarily freeze you in place. I don't know why it does is (particularly) with requiem) but it makes it a total pain in the ass to run away in time.

[KingOfZeal]

Yeah, Mal is correct about that -- I admittedly haven't touched BRD since I hit 75 except for events or personal things (I even stopped partying at ~73 if I recall), so it's been quite some time since I've been called on to pull anything that could potentially kill me. But, now that it's been mentioned, I do remember Elegy letting you move earlier. It's possible that if you time it correctly (probably around 80% song cast time, assuming you aren't wearing any pieces that reduce that) you can start moving without risking an interrupt, and at the very least get a (small) head start back.

Also, if you have a fair bit of faith in your sleeping abilities (and you're early enough in the previous fight), you can try using Lullaby right off the bat, and simply DoT it when it's time -- this especially works well if a pop occurs right after a pull, and it happens to be right there. I'm thinking Lesser Colibri just outside Aht Urghan, where birds tend to pop close to camp and the camps can be particularly contested.

Honestly, there's no reason you can't try all these things for yourself, though -- parties really don't care what you pull with, so long as necessary debuffs are applied early in the fight (along with appropriate buffs). Since often in the lower levels (which for some reason I can only think of pulling in CN) you're well out of sight of a party, so long as you don't die or take major damage it's no harm no foul IMO. And I'm all in favor of being self-taught and exploring things for oneself.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

People are that dumb. BRDs and CORs, when asked to pull, are supposed to "stage pull" (pull and sleep), this is a bad tactic to be using as a BRD at low levels because you don't have access to equipment that's going to help lullaby stick very well. COR doesn't even have the ability to stage pull until 40 tops and if I remember correctly, BRD won't have its first elegy until you hit the jungles.

I've got a Monster Signa for the +CHR and I should have Mary's Horn soon (gritting my teeth and buying it - that damn sheep is not cooperating at all 0/18). I try to keep my skills capped and at this level (about to ding 30) I can usually stick a Threnody pretty well, but I usually end up getting hit - due to that freeze after singing thing (<_<).

BRD is starting to suck up serious gilz - not RDM moneyz, but still a decent chunk. Mages ballad was a ton of money already and some of the higher level songs are quite pricey, but you are expected to have them, so ....

I farm, I farm, it's off to Farm I go go go