[Laifierr]

I leveled brd to 75 as /whm only. This was before ToAU and before /nin became popular.

20s-whatever level elegy is, I used Dia to pull. I also didn't pull full time because some mobs hit hard like gobbies in the jungle. I used Dia because other songs like Threnody gives a "pause" where you are stuck planted to the ground.

Once I got my first elegy, I pulled full time. Which is ironic because I had quit thf in the mid 40s because I hated pulling, go figure lol

[IfritnoItazura]

Old topic, but pulling with Dia is not a good idea, since you can't Lullaby the monster afterward.

If pulling on /WHM before Elegy is available, Paralyze is a pretty good option at 6 MP; it's cheaper than Dia, and the cast time of 3 seconds isn't too bad.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

Old topic, but pulling with Dia is not a good idea, since you can't Lullaby the monster afterward.

If pulling on /WHM before Elegy is available, Paralyze is a pretty good option at 6 MP; it's cheaper than Dia, and the cast time of 3 seconds isn't too bad.

Laifierr did use a disclaimer - she Dia pulled before learning Elegy. At low level practically nothing links and pulling speed very much matters in competitive camps - its often why I object to pulling as a COR or RNG - I want to use a high delay weapon and those are too slow when you're up against Elegy pulls.

If you're stage fights with lullaby at low levels, something is wrong and you're trying to employ a high level dynamic that doesn't work well in a low level situation anyway. BRD shouldn't really be a puller at such low levels. I know people have succeeded and still go /NIN at these levels, but it remains poor form and gives mages no backup, even the pulling BRD should /WHM until faster mobs come along. A tank that's slow to Provoke isn't reason enough alone to go /NIN.

Again, practically nothing links at such low levels so the only real way to get in trouble with pulling is by simply not paying attention. If you aggro something, lullaby isn't a guaranteed save for the party - just the BRD ... and the moment the BRD runs to a mage for cures, someone else gets on the hate list, creating more problems.

As a puller, if you make a bad pull, its on you to eat that mistake and die - not bring it on the party.

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

If you're stage fights with lullaby at low levels, something is wrong and you're trying to employ a high level dynamic that doesn't work well in a low level situation anyway. BRD shouldn't really be a puller at such low levels.

Er? It's a GOOD thing when a lower level party can fight staging style; it means there's adequate curing power, strong DDs, and not at an over-hunting camp. When those conditions are met, a Bardshould be a puller.

I clearly remember staged pulling in Garlaige Citadel, at the camp by the gate fighting bats and beetles. So, should haven been a ~Lv.34 or so party, before Elegy. BRD/WHM, pulling with Paralyze, Lullaby at camp.

The front line was strong, and we had DNC + WHM or something for keeping people healthy. Was one great party.

Once a BRD has Horde Lullaby (Lv.27) and (nearly) capped skills, staged pulling is a possible option. (Depends on a few things, of course; not overhunting, adequate curing power, decent DDs, clear camp--no stray critter get Horde Lullaby, etc.) It's not possible in every low/mid level party Lv.27+, but a BRD should be prepared to take advantage of any party which offers this chance once he has Horde Lullaby.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Again, practically nothing links at such low levels so the only real way to get in trouble with pulling is by simply not paying attention.

Bats, Beetles, Goblin, Crawler, and Dhalmel are some critters which can link; I've seen all of those between Lv.27 to Lv.38 at one point or another, on the trip up on various jobs. (Lv.27 to 38 is when I recommend pulling with Paralyze, that's why I mention those levels.)

Specific to my own Bard experience, Bats and Crawlers were quite easy to sleep on BRD, IIRC. The Beetles, not as easy, but I managed. Didn't have a Goblin Furrier party on Bard, so can't say for Goblins what it would be like for BRD at those levels. Can't remember whether I had an Eastern Altepa Desert party on BRD or not, so not sure about Dhalmels, either.

* * *

Even if you are not planning on staged pulling, wouldn't it be nice to have the option to sleep the critter (in case of link/pop, previous critter didn't die as fast as you hoped, etc.)? Unless multiple parties are trying to squeeze into a single camp, shaving ~2 seconds off per trip with Dia instead of Paralyze really doesn't offer much of an advantage.

However, if there are competitors, wouldn't staged pulling become more attractive?! I just find the idea of wanting to hit a critter with a (measly 1 HP/tick) DoT on pull to be too weird.

[Murphie]

Couldn't you just blink away the animation on Threnody and save time having to worry about doing Paralyze vs. Dia vs. Something else? Or would that not work?

[Raydeus]

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

Laifierr did use a disclaimer - she Dia pulled before learning Elegy.

Paralyze is still better to pull, specially if the mob has a chance to hit you like in Laifierr's case. As you can always sleep in an emegency.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

If you're stage fights with lullaby at low levels, something is wrong and you're trying to employ a high level dynamic that doesn't work well in a low level situation anyway. BRD shouldn't really be a puller at such low levels. I know people have succeeded and still go /NIN at these levels, but it remains poor form and gives mages no backup, even the pulling BRD should /WHM until faster mobs come along. A tank that's slow to Provoke isn't reason enough alone to go /NIN.

I don't know about you, but I've had fast chaining as BRD as early as Yhoator and it was always great xp.

Also, like everything else in this game subjob is situational. Going /whm or /nin depends on your party setup, and that remains true from lvl 24 all the way to 75 and merits.

Originally Posted by Omgwtfbbqkitten

As a puller, if you make a bad pull, its on you to eat that mistake and die - not bring it on the party.

¨
Oh please, that only happens if you lack judgement. Of course you aren't going to bring a train to the party, but if its a controllable link (again, depending on your party setup) there no reason for you to die unnecesarily and slow things down while you are weakened.



Seriously, I understand you meant well trying to defend Laifierr's use of Dia, but all you accomplished was making things worse.

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Murphie

Couldn't you just blink away the animation on Threnody and save time having to worry about doing Paralyze vs. Dia vs. Something else? Or would that not work?

Actually, I thought of that, but only after I Elegy. So, didn't test...

[Amberly]

brd/whm the whole way for me. I hate pulling so if they asked me to pull or go sub nin when we have a thf or rng, i would tell them to look for another brd. I know its kind of a dickhead move but my favorite thing about brd is the you never have to seek for parties and I love being able to be picky.

[Neverslip]

... macros.

[Amberly]

Originally Posted by Neverslip

... macros.

Oh god yes. Macros will save you from pulling a Dane Cook with Monopoly...."FUCK THIS GAME!"





Sorry, i could not resist.

[Neverslip]

I just had to say it cuz I've been in several arguments recently with people declaring macros are useless and only slow them down... they all played on 360 and are a non-caster mains. Yeah maybe they slow ya down in the creation of them but I don't know how I'd be better by NOT using macros.

[IfritnoItazura]

Originally Posted by Amberly

brd/whm the whole way for me. I hate pulling so if they asked me to pull or go sub nin when we have a thf or rng, i would tell them to look for another brd.

RNG isn't a great puller once it has Sidewinder/Slug Shot, especially on piercing weak monsters. A good RNG does too much damage to be able to run away before every fight ends for the next pull, with your average tanks.

The idea of a Bard puller is that the Bard's primary duty--songs--continue to work while the BRD is away from the fight. Where as, if a DD pulls, he'd have to leave camp before fight ends, so lowers the overall damage output of the party.

Not every party is better off with Bard pulling instead of backup curing, but keeping the pulling option open is a good idea.

[Neverslip]

I <3 Brd pullers. They allow me to stay in a high level exp party and actually dance as a Dnc. Lotsa high level experience parties pick up a Dancer and expect them to be the puller. Don't get me wrong, I like pulling. I started as Thf and was baptised in the fires of Valkurm by my RL friend maniacally laughing at me... but, I like Dancing on my Dnc, thank you. Just cuz SE nerft us with a frisbee for a AF weapon does not mean we need to run away from the mob's last 20% HP (TP !!?!!)...Latent Effect: potentially pulling the current fight with us with the last ditch Curing Waltz someone needed.

Besides... the {Mamook} suck at Folf !!!!