[Callisto]

And only about 2 of us know how to gear/play the job properly, 1 is in your LS lol.

Although I've also seen some rough ones with your pearls on.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by The Mauva Syndicate

Sidenote to the BRD's out there - anything I should look out for? Since we'll be putting parties together as BRD/WHMx2, Tank, Main heal, DDx2 - any combos to shoot for/ Watch out for?

- Rangers are poisonous for Bards most of the time ever since ranged weapons got all nerf-borked about a year or so ago. Rarely do Rangers sit in one spot, and having them pull hate makes mobs move around, which makes players move around, which makes your songs miss their targets... I'd say Rangers are the last option when playing Bard these days. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen frequently enough (unless the ranger sucks, but that's a totally different problem) that it's not worth the headaches IMO. Also remember they have a different set of requirements than melees sometimes. Madrigal does nothing for them, so if you're using it, make sure you overwrite it on them with something more useful like a +STR Etude or (if and ONLY if they request it, Prelude).

- One of the two of you should consider raising Ninja as a subjob by the time you're in the level 60+ range. Two BRD/WHM's is overkill, especially if one of you is focusing on pulling.

- Blue Mages have to be treated with kid gloves. Make sure you're providing +STR Etudes and/or Ballads and/or Madrigal for a Blue Mage. Minuet doesn't do much for them, and neither does March. Don't avoid them, but just bear in mind they need some extra TLC in the same vein as a Paladin, if not more so.


Icemage

[Callisto]

Originally Posted by Icemage

- Rangers are poisonous for Bards most of the time ever since ranged weapons got all nerf-borked about a year or so ago. Rarely do Rangers sit in one spot, and having them pull hate makes mobs move around, which makes players move around, which makes your songs miss their targets... I'd say Rangers are the last option when playing Bard these days. It doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen frequently enough (unless the ranger sucks, but that's a totally different problem) that it's not worth the headaches IMO. Also remember they have a different set of requirements than melees sometimes. Madrigal does nothing for them, so if you're using it, make sure you overwrite it on them with something more useful like a +STR Etude or (if and ONLY if they request it, Prelude).

Gotta get with the times IM. While correct, RNG's are now easily dealt with(at least 55(?)+) Cast Madrigal on melees(if it hits RNG that's fine), cast highest-tier Minuet(make sure it does hit RNG), use Pianissimo, then cast next highest Minuet on the RNG, or as stated, Prelude instead if they request it). STR etudes aren't really a big deal anymore.

Same deal with BLUs, cast March or Minuet(whatever you're giving the party), then Madrigal, then Pianissimo and hit them with a Ballad.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

Originally Posted by Icemage

- One of the two of you should consider raising Ninja as a subjob by the time you're in the level 60+ range. Two BRD/WHM's is overkill, especially if one of you is focusing on pulling.

Icemage

Yeah I'm working on NIN sub for RDM anyway - Any idea about /DNC? (which I have not yet unlocked, but will next week when I have time off...)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Originally Posted by Icemage

- Rangers are poisonous for Bards most of the time ever since ranged weapons got all nerf-borked about a year or so ago.

They fixed the ranged formula in October of 2006 (the nerf was in Summer 2005) and added Velocity Shot December 2007. We're not really nerfed anymore.

Rarely do Rangers sit in one spot, and having them pull hate makes mobs move around, which makes players move around, which makes your songs miss their targets... I'd say Rangers are the last option when playing Bard these days.

Pulling hate isn't exclusive to RNGs. WHM, BLM, SCH and RDM are more than capable of causing the same problem, as are the Haste-mad melee who don't sub /NIN but want to rip hate anyway, thus turning them into MP sinks and making the backline pull hate with larger tier cures.

A good RNG (or COR, for that matter) isn't going to plug away thier Slugshots or Barrages mid-fight anyway, they're usually going to use them to end a fight, which shouldn't amount to them pulling hate at all.

Also remember they have a different set of requirements than melees sometimes. Madrigal does nothing for them, so if you're using it, make sure you overwrite it on them with something more useful like a +STR Etude or (if and ONLY if they request it, Prelude).

Hi2u Pianissimo. I'll take a high tier Minuet and Tier I STR Etude, please. First Tier Etudes don't decay and cap at 10 if you have the right HQ harp and stringed skill up there.

Gimmie Prelude or March and I'll make you swallow that flute.

Originally Posted by Mauva

Any idea about /DNC? (which I have not yet unlocked, but will next week when I have time off...)

/DNC is garbage for BRD, BRD will get far more use out of /WHM or /NIN.

/DNC requires melee for TP, TP is not a strong point for BRDs, especially in the 51+ world where staves swaps would kill your TP and also when you'll get a second tier of Ballad, which would pull you off the frontline even more than it already did.

Might be useful for Campaign if you've got a Joyeuse or you're farming in small groups, but that's about as far as I'd go with it in regards to BRD.

[Icemage]

Originally Posted by Callisto

Gotta get with the times IM. While correct, RNG's are now easily dealt with(at least 55(?)+) Cast Madrigal on melees(if it hits RNG that's fine), cast highest-tier Minuet(make sure it does hit RNG), use Pianissimo, then cast next highest Minuet on the RNG, or as stated, Prelude instead if they request it). STR etudes aren't really a big deal anymore.

I know you can do Minuet + Pianissimo Minuet on a Ranger. That's not really the point though. They're a spike damage job once they get access to Slug Shot/Sidewinder. Either they're good, and the mob shifts (unless you've got a really good tank), or they suck and it doesn't matter what you give them.

Same deal with BLUs, cast March or Minuet(whatever you're giving the party), then Madrigal, then Pianissimo and hit them with a Ballad.

You don't seem to understand. You almost never cast Madrigal after Minuet (exception sometimes made for lolibri since they have abnormally high Evasion, but other than that, never). Most melees don't want Madrigal, and casting it last means you're stuck with it until you've slapped two more songs on those melees.

Which generally means you're using Sinewy Etude + Ballad I/II on Blue Mages and hoping they have enough accuracy on their own to land the hits they need (which in theory shouldn't be a problem since a reasonably good front line Blue Mage should be packing a properly levelled A rank Sword skill and most likely nibbling on sole sushi for the STR/ACC boost).

---

They fixed the ranged formula in October of 2006 (the nerf was in Summer 2005) and added Velocity Shot December 2007. We're not really nerfed anymore.

Certainly not. But what hasn't changed is the shooting range. You're still not in melee range, and if you pull hate, that mob IS moving toward you.

Pulling hate isn't exclusive to RNGs. WHM, BLM, SCH and RDM are more than capable of causing the same problem, as are the Haste-mad melee who don't sub /NIN but want to rip hate anyway, thus turning them into MP sinks and making the backline pull hate with larger tier cures.

I don't think you'll be seeing too many WHM or BLM in a double bard party (topic of discussion, remember!) prior to level 70 when WHM can sub /SCH for Sublimation in this context. SCH maybe, as Sublimation gives them just enough MP flow to keep up with an Energizer-style party. RDMs quite often, but RDMs who pull hate in a double Bard party are only doing so if melees are taking far too much damage, and in such cases the problems are much deeper than just the RDM at that point.

A good RNG (or COR, for that matter) isn't going to plug away thier Slugshots or Barrages mid-fight anyway, they're usually going to use them to end a fight, which shouldn't amount to them pulling hate at all.

In a traditional party, I'd agree that doesn't happen "as" often, but it still happens because "most" players are probably not going to sit on 100+++ TP for half a fight if they can avoid it, even when it's the sensible thing to do.

Hi2u Pianissimo. I'll take a high tier Minuet and Tier I STR Etude, please. First Tier Etudes don't decay and cap at 10 if you have the right HQ harp and stringed skill up there.

Gimmie Prelude or March and I'll make you swallow that flute.

That IS why I mentioned that Prelude should only be cast on request. Not everyone gears up RNG stocked on Accuracy like you do BBQ, and while I agree that good players are generally not going to be counting on having a Bard around to supply them with that last extra bit of RACC they need to do their jobs, it's not unheard of - in fact I see it with depressing commonality.


Icemage

[Aksannyi]

Originally Posted by Murphie

If you say so, guy.

I'M NOT YOUR GUY, FRIEND!

all caps.

[The Mauva Syndicate]

*UPDATE* OK now weve done it a bit and I gotta say...

Dual BRD's Rock!!!

WOW, a little BRD is good, but double is like FUG YA!

17-19 in 97 minutes with only 4 members in PT, WHM/BLM WAR/MNK BRD/WHM and BRD/RDM, no deaths - sweetness is the singing of the BRD's!