Is there imbalance between monsters and players?

[IfritnoItazura]

Players' abilities, especially those of melee damage dealers, have been steadily increased over the years. Some examples:

• Two-handed weapons benefiting more from stats
• Hasso
• Haste/Accuracy gears
• Three forms of external MP refresh, stackable
• Armor with "Refresh" effect
• Sushi (for substantial accuracy increase)
• Various other gears
• Merits

In contrasts, the monsters' performance have largely remain the same. Many players would even say the last expansion pack, Treasure of Aht Urghan, gave us monsters which are even weaker for the experience points received. (e.g. Imp with its low HP.) That, instead, has further lowered the effective difficulty of monsters, since players naturally gravitate to targets which give the best experience points per hour.

Does FFXI's development team agree that there's now an imbalance between the players and the monsters?

If so, how does the team plan to address the problem?

[Balfree]

Maybe you're seeing things backwards? Maybe SE felt there was an inbalance before so they "buffed" us up to better balance the game? I dont see much of a big difference tbh.

An Imp may have low HP, but its not like all monsters are there just for their HP, Imps are annoying for the most part, spells are pratically useless, specially debuffs.

[Skoal]

I know that the drg automaton in ENM 60 Pulling the Strings is stronger since the 2h update.

[Yellow Mage]

Don't quote me on this, but I think I remember reading somewhere that Aht Urghan mobs were intended to be more "challenging," not less.

But, then, maybe Itaz is on to something, here.

[IfritnoItazura]

Maybe you're seeing things backwards? Maybe SE felt there was an inbalance before so they "buffed" us up to better balance the game? I dont see much of a big difference tbh.

I'm asking how FFXI's development team views the balance between monsters and players, not how I (or you) should look at it. The question isn't one meant for the pundits.

An Imp may have low HP, but its not like all monsters are there just for their HP, Imps are annoying for the most part, spells are pratically useless, specially debuffs.

Paralyze lands decently enough since I hit RDM71 or 72. Silence is not as good, but often than not it sticks since Lv.73. Dispel is a still a pain.

The thing is, now that I'm RDM74, I find myself skipping Dia II since by the time I finish with Silence and Paralyze, the Imp is often more than half dead.

Spells are practically useless alright, since these Imps die so quickly. Call me old school, but I have to ask if S-E really intended us to exp on monsters which are not worth three spells each.

[jenova_9]

even now, mobs are still an uphill struggle for most people and parties. ya TOAU has some easier mobs compared to other spots, but that's actually a good thing, and even still there are mobs that would give a 75 some trouble, and if there's a link, it's over. maybe elitists would call them careless or scrubs
but the bestiary in the world of Vana'diel is already fierce enough as it is.
Players deserve to kick butt too without having to pick on Easy Prey to feel special.

you can run around solo in Castle Zvahl Baileys and let all the demons link, that'll help you get that old school flavor of challenge all over again. or hunt strong NMs.

There's plenty of spots to find monsters that have enough HP to shower them with your talents. If you are disappointed with monsters that fall too quickly in exp parties, then maybe you're taking your power and support and chance to net faster exp for granted. :P

there has always been an inbalance,

a single warrior can't even beat up a crab by themselves.

a party of knights gets creamed by a rabbit.

a summoner's dragon gets slaughtered by a puny mandragora.

someone fails to land a hit, several times, against a giant that's right in their face

Imbalance? This is Vana'diel, a world of imbalance.

[IfritnoItazura]

No offense, but I'm already well aware of the range of player opinions on this topic; they go from "Monsters are way too easy! Kirin goes down under 30 second is BS!" to "Exp'ing is still to tedious--make us stronger!", and just about every position in between.

I'm curious about what the people who make the game think about the monster-player balance, and only their opinions and approaches toward this issue.

[Karinya]

I think my opinion on this point is probably pretty well known to the regulars here. :) But I'd definitely like to see SE's answer. When everybody and their dog can solo "tough" monsters, there has definitely been a shift in the balance of power; but whether it was intended or not is something only SE can answer.

[Balfree]

You seriously expect people not to give out replies to your threads...? Should've asked to close the thread then.

I for one have an opinion and wether you dislike it or not, it's not your right to tell me to take a hike.

SE gave the jobs these updates because people kept asking for them, the majority of the people got what they wanted.

[jenova_9]

I'm curious about what the people who make the game think about the monster-player balance, and only their opinions and approaches toward this issue.

um I don't think SE would be open for questions if they were so conceided as to believe their views lead to the best decisions for the community. SE aren't gamers they are just people who make games as a business, there is a difference, and very few developers and publishers are aware of what the players who actually play the game go through.

If they told you their opinions, it would mostly be just from a technical standpoint what they think what works and what doesn't, not from a gaming perspective. They depend on the community to let them know if there are any serious issues that are worth adjusting.

"and only their opinions and approaches toward this issue"

what issue? imbalance between monsters and players? I think how things are and have been for like 4 years pretty much says a lot about their views and decisions concerning that.

But yeah, I too would like to hear what they think concerning monster vs. player imbalances, although I doubt they would say anything significant that would lead to a solution. But most of it is just player perspective what's balanced and what isn't balanced.

as for TOAU mobs, I feel they have less HP to make exping more bearable.

People deserve that kind of breather cause less time to beat mobs, the faster they can make some real progress.

[Armando]

as for TOAU mobs, I feel they have less HP to make exping more bearable.

People deserve that kind of breather cause less time to beat mobs, the faster they can make some real progress.

Thing is, making things that give the same EXP as the next mob but with less HP isn't the only way to let us get EXP faster. They could just as easily introduce tougher mobs that give MUCH more EXP per kill than the usual IT mob, and then you'd have fights that are actually challenging, while still spending less time EXP'ing overall.

Itazura simply wants to know if they deliberately made things this way.

[Ziero]

um I don't think SE would be open for questions if they were so conceided as to believe their views lead to the best decisions for the community. SE aren't gamers they are just people who make games as a business, there is a difference, and very few developers and publishers are aware of what the players who actually play the game go through.
If they told you their opinions, it would mostly be just from a technical standpoint what they think what works and what doesn't, not from a gaming perspective. They depend on the community to let them know if there are any serious issues that are worth adjusting.
"and only their opinions and approaches toward this issue"

From what I have seen, the people who work on FFXI do so because they enjoy having people play their game for fun. Though money may be the bottom line, the people at SE *are* game players and story tellers, and they find enjoyment when people like their products.

That said, I'm sure they have a "vision" for everything they do, even if that vision is letting the players figure out the best way to do things. And I'm sure their vision for the popular EXP mobs people use nowadays, things like Puks, Colibri, Imps and Eruka, were to make mobs with high offense/enfeebles but weak defense/hp. All these monsters have real annoying specials and traits, abilities that no other mobs have. An Eruka can drop a full HP nin at the start of a fight in one attack, Colibri are *horrible* to cast magic on, Imps can stop an Exp chain by taking away everyone's abilities and WS with an uncurable status. The balance of these mobs is that they're supposed to be more dangerous offensively and in doing so lose their defenses.

It's not *all* ToAU mobs that are easier, it's just that there are a lot of 'weak', small mobs that con at highest VT. Combine that with high repop rates, and Sanctions' bonuses of +exp% and autorefresh for mages, and it makes lvling that much easier.

[jenova_9]

challenge huh? it shouldn't take more than 1-11 hits to kill anything, especially birds, crabs, caterpillars, fish, etc.

I mean are our weapons made out of whiffle bats? =P

[Mhurron]

challenge huh? it shouldn't take more than 1-11 hits to kill anything, especially birds, crabs, caterpillars, fish, etc.
I mean are our weapons made out of whiffle bats? =P

FFXI is, and was designed to be, a cooperative game.

Think about it.

[Raydeus]

The question should've been:

Are there any plans for making tougher mobs worth fighting for experience points (post Aht Urgan)? =P

The problem isn't that Aht Urgan mobs are so burn friendly, the problem is tougher mobs aren't worth the time fighting them. If this was really about all that "challenge" and "sense of acomplishment" bs that's usually thrown around when this subject comes out then people would still be fighting Conquest mobs, regardless of how many experience points per hour they got.

But that isn't the case, this is about how old party mechanics became obsolete due to the new fast chain approach to xping in terms of xp/hr rates.

So, save for making tougher, skillchain friendly mobs worth the time xp-wise I don't see this going anywhere. =/


Edit > Just a note, I'm of the idea of players having as many options available as possible, so I rather like the idea of enhancing xp/hr rates for old school xp parties without gimping existing setups.

As I've said before, I quit playing PLD because of the new ghetto DD role the job had to take because the new burn parties became the norm rather than another option, but that doesn't mean I want burn parties get nerfed.

Nothing good has ever come out from a nerf. Which is what this kind of threads always become, a "Nerf-burns and Utsusemi!" kinda thread that is.