[IfritnoItazura]

I don't think it'd completely destroy SMNs, but their Blood Pacts should be revised substantially if curing from /WHM is heavily nerfed.

[Akashimo]

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

I don't think it'd completely destroy SMNs, but their Blood Pacts should be revised substantially if curing from /WHM is heavily nerfed.

Fix bps, change so smn/whm curing is gimped like war/blm nuking and we'd all be set.

[Yellow Mage]

Originally Posted by IfritnoItazura

I don't think it'd completely destroy SMNs, but their Blood Pacts should be revised substantially if curing from /WHM is heavily nerfed.

That, and make each avatar worth keeping out. You're paying massive amounts of MP to sustain a god, for crying out loud: it should at least leave a feeling of hurt on your enemies, even in between the Blood Pacts.

Do that, and you're set. Maybe adjust the spirits a tad, for extra credit.

[Malacite]

Honestly, it's about the only way to make SE snap out of their dementia.

We're not advocating breaking SMN here, because it's already broken. The point is to give /WHM the shit kick it so rightly deserves (why should it be exempt from the same poor performance other mage subs have?) and giving WHM and PLD a strong boost to their healing abilities. This in turn forces SE to re-evaluate SMN as a whole and thus focus on turning the job into what it should be, a summoner. Not WHM v.2 + pets

[Saren]

If we are talking exp parties then I believe whm could do with some sort of adjustment to give us better endurance. I was a hell of a lot more excited about my dark staff than I was my light staff.

Whm shouldn't be the only job that can solo main heal an exp party. Not that many people play it as a main job and turning it into a required slot is only going to turn it into what Bard was until recently, and make finding an exp party more difficult. If you want people to be able to exp fairly easily there need to be at least a couple of options for each role.

Honestly I am not sure that whm should be nerfed as a sub. I'd like to see healing skill do a bit more than it does now but not to the extent that /whm cures are the jokes that /blm nukes are. Whm is a very powerful sub and instead of making it useless, perhaps it might be a better idea to make the other mage jobs a bit more useful as subs.

[Akashimo]

I doubt that'll fix the problem if they make the other mage jobs more useful as subs to smn. Cause they'll still /whm. Its burned into the curse style of smn healing. We have to make it less apealing for /whm by making cures a joke like /blm nukes. For a good support role as smn, I see /brd /cor and maybe /pup good options. May not have access to the best of the main jobs would, but, it gives them something to add so something different can be used as buffs by all support roles.

[Malacite]

Why /PUP? You can only have a single pet out.

What would be cool, is if /WHM boosted healing blood pacts, and /BLM boosted Magical (Offensive) Blood Pacts like Tier 2/4 Elemental Spells and Nightmare. (Would be great if SMN could be made a more attractive sub for WHM and BLM in return as well but I'm not quite sure how)

As for boosting avatar HP/Melee etc, that should really be derived from Summoning Magic Skill (which I still maintain has next to no influence worth mentioning. Stupid +skill bandaid fix...)

[Akashimo]

/pup to do a random flash or cure inbetween bps

[Malacite]

But wouldn't it be great if healing magic skill would buff healing blood pacts the same way it does for Blue Magic?

SMN would become a spike healer! Instead of relying on their huge MP pool to toss out a bunch of lolCures, they could sub WHM for the healing skill and let loose with a big healing pact.

This is where SMN fails IMO. There's no need to rely on the sub job as much as it does. I'd much rather see the job rely on using it's MP on blood pacts efficiently (spending big MP for big effects) and when damage is needed, fueling all their MP into offensive pacts and keeping the avatar out. Enough of this /WHM and curing bull crap.


Sorry for the derail ^^

[lionx]

In addition to the things said above with Cure Potency +%, less enmity for Cures, faster Regen casting, Tier II buffs on others, /WHM, and weakness duration reduction with higher tier Raises....

One of the things that irks me a lil, is that WHM cannot dispel certain status effects. Yes we do get to cure alot of status effects, but with the exception of Petrification, everyone else can sub WHM and get the same level of efficiency as us with removing status effects. If we can have more uniqueness in this regard, and be able to remove things like Charm, Amnesia, Fear/Terror, or even maybe Doom, it might also help us in being more desirable as well.

It just doesnt feel right that when you reach 75, there is only one status effect removal spell thats unique to you...=/ I am sure its very convenient to have a RDM or SMN be able to remove status debuffs, but the point is that as the best healer in the game...shouldnt you be able to remove these negative buffs...?

Random thoughts: I also toyed with the idea of Scan, but i guess that goes to Scholars X3 Or maybe a Concentration buff for faster casting, Pax for lower enimity for a person...but thats just throwing things out to think about.

[Karinya]

Doom can be removed by Cursna, it just doesn't always succeed.

It *would* be nice for whms to get spells to remove amnesia, terror, maybe even charm. There's plenty more status ailments, no need to stop the -na spell series at 39. Now that amnesia and terror are no longer HNM-only status and can be used by every imp and hippogryph around, it doesn't make so much sense for them to be uncounterable.

But wouldn't it be great if healing magic skill would buff healing blood pacts the same way it does for Blue Magic?

You mean, not at all? BLU/WHM has divine seal and higher MND than BLU/something else, that's it. Healing magic skill has no effect on blue magic heals, which use blue magic skill.

It *would* be cool if Divine/Elemental Seals worked on blood pacts, I think; but it's also kind of logical that it doesn't: you're using those abilities on yourself, not on your avatar. Now if *Carby* had divine seal and you could get him to use it before HRII...

[lionx]

Doom can be removed by Cursna, it just doesn't always succeed.

A 100% remove from a WHM wouldnt be too unfair i would think. Really does make it feel as if they are the best healers if they can remove Doom via Cursna 100% or have a seperate spell for that, while the other mages are not able. Especially sub WHMs >_>;

[Necropolis]

While making healing magic count as something would force SE to do something about SMNs in exp, I think it would take the community as a whole too long to make it a smooth transition.

MP based DDs already have enough problems getting invites, if you removed SMNs ability to cure effectly you'd screw over a lot of people. Nearly forcing SMNs to solo to 75 exclusivly.

SMNs are a highly sought out job for endgame, and they can do amazing damage on demand, much like blm. And I don't think I've ever seen a SMN main heal in an endgame setting. It would be hard to tweak them were they are useful in exp outside of cures and not disrupt thier already over-powered pacts in endgame.

On the WHM front I'd rather see something like a conserve MP trait based on healing magic skill. Not something that proc'd 100% of the time, but perhaps more often than the BLM counter part. This I don't believe would be over powered as the spells are fairly low MP cost anyways, but would let you squeeze a few more chains out of a WHM's MPs. Nor would it break thier endgame roles either.

Personally I do not think fixing one job should break how another job is played. By making healing magic dependant on skill you'd never have a back up healer. Why would or should a blm sub whm in exp if thier cures will do significantly less? Same with bard. By changing cures to a skill based spell you'd remove the vast majority of support healing, putting more pressure on whms and rdms to do all the curing. That in the long run will not help whm invites, but only slow down exp for everyone.

[Ziero]

So like, I believe SE basically said "Yes" to this 'make Whm heal better' concept by adding Scholar and the Whie Grimoire buffs that affect all White magic cast.

....though why there's so much talk of Smn in a 'fix Whm' topic is beyond me

[Necropolis]

Originally Posted by Ziero

....though why there's so much talk of Smn in a 'fix Whm' topic is beyond me

Because there was talk of break any job that subs whm by making healing skill the main determinant in cures. SMN being one of those jobs that depend on the whm support job to gain any exp in a party setting (and often solo).