What's being done about BLM and Tanks?

[Malacite]

Right now the party situation is pretty damn bad. I've been LFP for the last 3 days straight with 2 failed parties that I had to make with whatever was seeking.


I swear, it's getting to be near impossible to level BLM these days. No body wants us for EXP, and tanks are becoming increasingly hard to find whenever I try to build a PT.


So, what's SE doing about any of this?

[DR2D2]

Right now the party situation is pretty damn bad. I've been LFP for the last 3 days straight with 2 failed parties that I had to make with whatever was seeking.


I swear, it's getting to be near impossible to level BLM these days. No body wants us for EXP, and tanks are becoming increasingly hard to find whenever I try to build a PT.


So, what's SE doing about any of this?

I've noticed a similar occurance on Laksami server, but with whm(and to a small degree healers). It seems like the jobs most available are drg, nin, war, and blm.

[Aeni]

Easy solution. Remove TP parties and/or move Utsusemi: Ni to level 38.

[IfritnoItazura]

Nah. The solution is "Static Party". Have one, and you'd never have to look for a party.

* * *

There is precious little S-E can do about imbalance of job distribution without being heavy handed.

On the other hand, the company may be able to help out BLM's a bit if they adjust the game to bring back skillchain and magic burst's popularity, but that would require some combination of: 1) making exp monsters tougher; 2) lower the effectiveness of WS spam--i.e. lower the power of WS's, and 3) make MB'ed spells more effective.

Of the three, only the third one would cause little to no uproar, but it would be the least effective method to bring back SC+MB. The just first and the second together can easily do the job, and the ensuring mass whining about being nerfed and FFXI turned into a total grind would be funny... Not healthy, but surely funny to look at...

[Tipsy]

What's SE doing about this?

No.. what are the players doing about this.


What many people fail to understand is, not all parties need to be what they've come to believe is a normal party. You know, the normal set up: MNK WAR NIN BLM WHM RDM? Something like that. There's lots of other ways to exp, lots of job combos, tanks are not really needed anymore. Either is a Refresher.

So what is SE doing about this?


Nothing, it's not an issue. No matter what they do, someone will find something else to complain about, something that THEY as a player can easily avoid by taking a different route.


An easy solution to your problem would be to either manaburn, get a static together, solo, do escort quests, whatever, do it all, think outside of the box.


And yes, many jobs are unbalanced, some 'over-powered', some 'gimp' or what you guys love to call 'nerfed.' But every job has a situation where they'll excell more than the other. If all jobs where equally balanced, to a point, the game would be boring, there would be no diversity. Where's the fun in that?

[Neppy]

I solod BLM from 51-63 which I am currently. You didn't mention what level your BLM is but there are solo guides all over. http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/Black_M..._by_Lion_heart Here is a address to one in fact. I solod 60k exp in two days in Bibiki Bay. May even want to try BLM burn parties or even dou with someone. My exp/hr solo is so amazing and fast that I actually turn down party invites.

[Aeni]

An easy solution to your problem would be to either manaburn, get a static together, solo, do escort quests, whatever, do it all, think outside of the box.

And I suppose forming TP burn parties is thinking outside of the box? In all honesty, looking at your sig, I can see you're melee heavy in your favoritism. Therefore, is your response genuinely unbiased?

[Tipsy]

Therefore, is your response genuinely unbiased?

Yes, my response is unbiased.

My BLM is Lv.75, so don't think for one second that I don't know where he's coming from, posting this subject. I thought plenty of times *to myself*, "Wow, BLM really isn't popular in end game EXP."


I'm simply offering him help on how to make his next move.

[Auron517]

Honestly, there's not really much SE can do to fix the TP Burn fad everyone is crazy about. There's always going to be new methods of playing this game that leaves someone out in the cold. Although, that being said, I do acknowledge that what's going on with the Aht Urghan expansion is a serious problem.

Tipsy actually had a good point. Square isn't responsible for the situation that's happening in game because we're doing it to ourselves. Who decided that Black Mages and Skillchains were useless now? We did. Who said that Warrior wasn't a tank, Blue Mage is DPS only, CoP was too hard, the old areas are gimped, etc.? We did.

Final Fantasy XI: Online is a game that's deeply rooted in community and team work. If anything needs to change, it's our own attitudes about what we want the game to be; it doesn't have anything to do with Square.

[Karinya]

Honestly, there's not really much SE can do to fix the TP Burn fad everyone is crazy about.

Oh, yes there is. They just aren't doing it.

Make difficult monsters worth more exp/hr than pathetic weaklings, and you'll see people move away from TP burns - because they really don't work all that well against monsters that fight back.

How many TP burns do you know that are willing to pull the wyverns near Mamool Ja Staging Point? Even those aren't as difficult as an IT mob is to level 60s. But TP burns can't handle monsters that can hurt you, because they don't have a real tank - sometimes not a full-time healer either - and aren't controlling their hate.

It's the weakness of the monsters that makes some tactics more effective than others, and it's the high exp value/difficulty ratio of weak monsters that makes them the favored exp/merit targets.

There's always going to be new methods of playing this game that leaves someone out in the cold. Although, that being said, I do acknowledge that what's going on with the Aht Urghan expansion is a serious problem.
Tipsy actually had a good point. Square isn't responsible for the situation that's happening in game because we're doing it to ourselves. Who decided that Black Mages and Skillchains were useless now? We did. Who said that Warrior wasn't a tank, Blue Mage is DPS only, CoP was too hard, the old areas are gimped, etc.? We did.

Not really. There is a real, measurable (and in fact, huge) difference in exp/hr return between fighting IT Kindred and fighting low-VT imps and flies - and the easy fights are worth more. Some people would take on difficult fights for better rewards and others would stay on the path of least resistance, but when the easy way gives you better rewards, very very few people are going to want to step off it.

The accessibility of TAU exp areas plays some role too, but if you could get better exp in Uleg, I think people would go. It's the fact that you spend 15 minutes getting there just to make worse exp from harder fights that makes it "gimped".

When a traditional party fighting difficult mobs makes 8-10k/hr and a TP burn fighting imps and flies makes 15-20k/hr, I don't think you can just say it's the players' fault they only want to TP burn.

Final Fantasy XI: Online is a game that's deeply rooted in community and team work. If anything needs to change, it's our own attitudes about what we want the game to be; it doesn't have anything to do with Square.

Player behavior does matter, but the players will learn and repeat what gets results, and it's SE who decides what gets the best results.

[Malacite]

Most of the time I'd agree with that but not in this case. While it is in part our fault, the main reason is that the EXP/hour of even the weakest TP burns far exceeds what you can get in the old areas, and as such no one wants to bother with them. People want the most bang for their buck, as is evidenced by the recent Census (78% of all players play for 1-3 hours or less at a time)

[Auron517]

I might have been a bit hasty in saying that everything is our fault, and not Square's. I should explain: They should go back and change the exp for harder mobs, but I really don't think they will. A good majority of the game doesn't want them to change it. Wasn't there an iterview with Square and they said that they didn't feel it was necessary to change the way parties were going nowadays?

I wasn't talking Level 75 merit burns only, I meant the entire game as a whole. I completely undestand the insane amount of exp you can pull in Caedarva Mire on imps (which is broken imo) versus Demons in Uleguerand Range or Weapons in Ro'Maeve.

But when a group in the mid-levels wants to stay in overcramped Aht Urghan on a busy night, and would rather drop party instead of just sucking it up and going somewhere else, it's a problem. Especially, from my experience, I got roughly the same amount of exp in those areas, or sometimes even more so with a proper setup. Just like how the Burn mentality has managed to trickle down, and people are refusing to skillchain in Crawler's Nest of all places is ridiculous.

Square should make changes but we have to want things to change first.

[Sevv]

Right now the party situation is pretty damn bad. I've been LFP for the last 3 days straight with 2 failed parties that I had to make with whatever was seeking.
I swear, it's getting to be near impossible to level BLM these days. No body wants us for EXP, and tanks are becoming increasingly hard to find whenever I try to build a PT.
So, what's SE doing about any of this?

If your character info is right your currently a 24ish blm. I soloed from 25-30 in one afternoon out in Yhoatar Jungle on my blm. Was fun fast and great exp I turned down pt invites. Low level parties are always a bit harder to get in general, tp burns have nothing to do with pre 55ish exp. And At blm 51 the solo exp/hr is amazing it is much quicker then parties. Again the low levels =/= the whole game. S-E doesn't need to do any thing about this expect maybe increase the exp while soloing, which would help out blm and be the beastmaster fix that is wanted.

Easy solution. Remove TP parties and/or move Utsusemi: Ni to level 38.

Calling for the removal of tp burn parties, is just sad. If you can't always benefit from it then it should be removed. While at it lets remove magic because when I am on War/Thf, I can't use magic so lets get rid of magic. I know its a bit extreme to relate but, think about it. In order to merit/exp you don't have to make a tp burn. The jobs that are unfavored in Tp burns were the same jobs that where getting shunned before the TP burn craze.

You can say they "nerfed" manaburns but what effect did it have on manaburn leveling...

Oh, yes there is. They just aren't doing it.
Make difficult monsters worth more exp/hr than pathetic weaklings, and you'll see people move away from TP burns - because they really don't work all that well against monsters that fight back.

I think we have been over this the two of us before. The better Tp burn parties kill the IT mamjool @ nyzule isle. Great exp and at a burn rate, good merits making melee more effective. And if you have skilled people you can kill mobs that fight back, lol @ puk burn only.

How many TP burns do you know that are willing to pull the wyverns near Mamool Ja Staging Point? Even those aren't as difficult as an IT mob is to level 60s. But TP burns can't handle monsters that can hurt you, because they don't have a real tank - sometimes not a full-time healer either - and aren't controlling their hate.

My TP burn party was pulling wyverns all night, I tanked them on my war with no issues at all. IT in the 60's depend what you fight remember just it and it++ a big differance.

It's the weakness of the monsters that makes some tactics more effective than others, and it's the high exp value/difficulty ratio of weak monsters that makes them the favored exp/merit targets.

Of course you target a mobs weakness, Hi2u Blm party @ ebony puddings, or Hi2u Sc and Mb that does more damage in sky.

Not really. There is a real, measurable (and in fact, huge) difference in exp/hr return between fighting IT Kindred and fighting low-VT imps and flies - and the easy fights are worth more. Some people would take on difficult fights for better rewards and others would stay on the path of least resistance, but when the easy way gives you better rewards, very very few people are going to want to step off it.

The reason people go for the easy reward even if you up the exp/hr on demons is that ToAU hasn't destroyed the game, the whole expansion saved FFXI for the casual gamer. Tp burn is used by the "hardcore" gamer as a quick fix to meriting multiple jobs, and just having fun. You can't argue ffxi lost alot of people to the more casual WoW. ToAU brought back alot of players and helped give this game a broader appeal.

The accessibility of TAU exp areas plays some role too, but if you could get better exp in Uleg, I think people would go. It's the fact that you spend 15 minutes getting there just to make worse exp from harder fights that makes it "gimped".

I am going to agree here even if they put the exp/hr up in old zones its much easier to just use the runic portal and be at camp. It is a very hard fix. Getting a rep to go to an old camp can take a long time.

When a traditional party fighting difficult mobs makes 8-10k/hr and a TP burn fighting imps and flies makes 15-20k/hr, I don't think you can just say it's the players' fault they only want to TP burn.
Player behavior does matter, but the players will learn and repeat what gets results, and it's SE who decides what gets the best results.

Tp burns in mire are just weak I'm sorry, if you can only burn in the mire you need check your skill/gear. The players had the choice to tp burn or "standard" party, they made thier choice and benefit from the 15k+/hr. If s-e removes the tp burn gimps out aht urghan exp like you all want, you will see the death of casual gamers in FFXI again which will hurt the game alot.

[Insert]

OK, and here is where I go making friends again.

I am of the opinion that the casual gamer hurts the game. While I don't deny that having a larger playerbase benefits us all because it makes SE want to continue the game, I also see what the casual does.

Casual gamers are a majority of your gilbuyers. Your Mr. "I'm too good to camp this NM for this item", or "who needs to farm when I can buy the gil for what I want" do alot of harm. This is not to say that all casual gamers are gilbuyers, or vice versa. In almost every intelligent discussion I've read regarding gilbuying this was the most often used rationalization.

Casual gamers are often the people that have to have a party nearly fully assembled in order to participate. They also are the ones that if XP isn't meeting their expectations have "connection issues". Casual gamers should realize that endgame, is not the game. If you need to be PL'd beyond level 32, then that means you should learn your job and how to co-operate with others. The mad dash to get to level 75 without taking the time to get there just means you get people at endgame that don't know their jobs, and goddess forbid you should mention that too them.

TP burns are just another progression of the notion that I have to get there "NOW". This isn't a console game, it doesn't end. If you finish every quest, obtain every item, level everything to 75 with max merits and max experience, the only thing you have accomplished is running out of things to do for yourself.

TP burns are bad, so where manaburns, arrowburns, shadowburns, and every other burn party conceived. The game is about playing it, not about reaching whatever end the player perceives. You don't win a medal or a million Yen/Dollars/Pounds/Rupees/whatever for finishing a game that wasn't designed to end. So just play the game, instead of rushing to get past it so quickly. My opinion is if you are trying to hard to fly through game then I should help. Here is my secret for conquering FFXI:

Consider yourself the master at it and stop playing it as soon as possible, because only then will you be finished with it.

[Vyuru]

I am of the opinion that the casual gamer hurts the game. While I don't deny that having a larger playerbase benefits us all because it makes SE want to continue the game, I also see what the casual does.

.....otherstuff..... Etc.

Ok, keep in mind I find your post highly offensive and highly insulting, and while I will do my best to be civil some things may come across as being rather harsh.

I am a casual gamer being that I play about 3-4 hours a week now, maybe more maybe less. I do not need a party setup for me, I know how to make my own, I've been making my own since day 1, and I was one of the first to be saying that fighting and chaining VT mobs quickly was better than slowly killing and hopefully chaining IT mobs for crying out loud. If exp is not meeting my expectations I figure out why and how to improve it. However since I do not go to crowded exp locations, and I setup good parties, this is generally not the issue.

I know a ton of other *casual* gamers who do not fit your criteria, kindly do not make broad sweeping assumptions and generalizations. What you just posted is little better than saying nin > pld or all NA buy gilzorz and should be banned.