Would you consider giving incentives to level support jobs past 37?

[Feba]

People aren't asking for bonuses for leveling because they want bonuses, they're asking for bonuses for leveling because SE needs to get people to WANT to level so creating parties becomes easier.

[Omni]

creating parties has never been the issue.

i seek on various lvl ranges. sub job lvls, mid lvls, merits and 9/10 times theres more than enough people to make a decent party. if there is not, you can wait for a certain job to pop but the thing is people are whiny and lazy.

the issue is that no one wants to LEAD.
half the time, with NA pts in particular, the leader always tries to shuffle off leader duties or gets impatient after 10min of waiting and just leaves.

i still dont think its SE's job to get people to want to lead.

i cant count how many times ive heard 'im not good at leading, who wants to lead?' or 'so uhh, where do you want to go camp?'

its laziness. plain and simple.

[Mhurron]

Ok, this is true, a lot of people (including myself) do not want to lead parties. However after waiting for a bit for a party, I will. Often past lvl37 there were not enough people to make a good party, it does get harder to level because a lot of people you leveled with between 35-37 are not going past 37.

[Omni]

However after waiting for a bit for a party, I will.

im not sure everyone shares your willingness to act. most ppl rather sit and twiddle their thumbs before they take on the yellow dot next to their name.

and yea it does drop off, i dont deny that but there are still people who level. its not a complete dead stop in terms of people seeking. i know its not because i've done it many times.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I really don't see what this would change other than overpowering players further. The underlying motive here is to make things easier on the melee and mages that get invited less, yet, they still would be invited less. If people see a SMN and WHM, they're probably going to grab the WHM then move on to looking for a tank and a RDM/BRD/COR.

And this would also change nothing for the G1 levels, if you're a support class or tank, everything else is left in the dust.

Just the way it is, can't force people to play support and tanking classes. We can make more of them and there still won't be enough people willing to play them. Most people just want to be a job without any responsibilities - a damage dealer. And even though DDs jobs can add to the support pool or assist in hate control, many just opt not to.

Think waiting for invites from 37 onward is bad? I got two invites as BST 1-33 (one of which I actually turned down) and then didn't see one again til 53. 54-59 I haven't seen one. I like soloing and all and I'll admit I seek PT very rarely on BST, but you'd think people would consider inviting you more often as opposed to expecting you to solo all your levels, which actually seems to be the case.

There are many jobs that can solo when they make the effort, though and if your job can, I'd look into it seriously as opposed to twiddling your thumbs in Jeuno or Whitegate. Soloing can be fun and profitable if you play it right.

I don't enjoy making PTs. As soon as people get that invite they just seem to unthinkingly stare at you, waiting to be programmed. It annoys the crap out of me, inviting people with 4 75s jobs and they're still asking where to level next. What the crap.

So if I can't play something soloable, powerful or supportive, I generally don't play it. I find in these circumstances, that you're typically the last invited and don't have to deal with people acting like drones.

Every job has a role and has a place, but you gotta play the hand you're dealt with each job. Can't complain about what happens with your job if you knew what was going to happen going in.

[Murphie]

I don't think it's necessarily always about a lack of responsibility that draws people to DD jobs, so much as it's the WTFPWN damage that they love so much.

[Telera]

Being PLD/RDM and being able to actually Enf mobs I'm fighting would be awesome-wosome. ^^

Edit > Or RDM/PLD with Spirit Taker and Retribution. ^^v

That would be really nice. Same on my Smn/Whm. I like to try to enfeeb when I solo and with it being subbed enfeeb skill and me level 60 now, it doesn't stick too terribly much.

But, like Omgetc. was saying, it probably still wouldn't fix much in the long run. White Mage still get invited over Summoner, etc. Lot of people just don't like Support and Tanking. I can't stand White Mage. Granted most of my Summoner career has been in healing, but I am capable of contributing more than just heal/buff.

'Tis a fun idea, though, if nothing else.

[Vyuru]

but you'd think people would consider inviting you more often as opposed to expecting you to solo all your levels,

Well, from my own experiance I have invited bst, but 95% of the time I get turned down with the response, "I wouldn't be playing bst if I wanted a party"

Get that over twenty times and you start to think that bsts in general, don't want to party.

Also keep in mind party setups, I very much like thfs for SCing with, and pld tanks, so me, thf, pld, toss in a whm, rdm, gotta have a blm to MB since most rdm are unreliable with that, and that's 6 party members. Pre refresh levels I could normally either skip the rdm or have the rdm actually MB. Once I get that extra slot though I normally invite anyone who's LFG, and then I tend to look for the current unfavored job, or grab a drk 'cause I just love a good drk to pieces :)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I don't think it's necessarily always about a lack of responsibility that draws people to DD jobs, so much as it's the WTFPWN damage that they love so much.

OK, damage and no responsibility. I thought the damage part was obvious.

Get that over twenty times and you start to think that bsts in general, don't want to party.

Its not that we don't like PTs, we just don't like sharing seals :P But its those dry levels that really make you crave a PT since it can take days to find a camp that suits your tastes. Ule Range looks like my best option right now as I love mobs that self-detonate, but I can't filter out weather effects on PS2, so its a little bothersome when double ice weather is up.

[Murphie]

OK, damage and no responsibility. I thought the damage part was obvious.

Considering how obtuse a lot of posters are, it's best to be clear. And now we'll have some career DD's coming in here telling us about how they have plenty of responsibility, thank you very much.

And I will laugh to myself, but there we are.

[Karinya]

creating parties has never been the issue.

If it weren't for all my friends, I'd love to be on your server.

i seek on various lvl ranges. sub job lvls, mid lvls, merits and 9/10 times theres more than enough people to make a decent party.

Yeah - two THFs, another DRG, a WAR with {Provoke}{No thanks}, maybe a BLM, and a BLU/NIN with no other SJ. That's enough people to make a functioning party - me and the other DRG, duoing with mage SJs. Enough to make a functioning six person party? Very, very rarely.

if there is not, you can wait for a certain job to pop but the thing is people are whiny and lazy.
the issue is that no one wants to LEAD.

That's *an* issue, but the main issue is lack of availability of non-DD players.


Personally, I blame merits for the lack of low and mid level players. Before merits, once you got to 75, there wasn't much to do on nights when you didn't have an endgame event, except start another job (or very occasionally regain your exp buffer, but that doesn't take long). Now, not only are there far more endgame events to take up people's time, but when they're not doing one of those they're trying for their 200th merit point. Result: at any given time, most players are on a level 75 job or a mule they have no interest in leveling.

[Omni]

Contrived a little?

Perhaps you need to come to remora but, dont take my word for it.

I seek mainly during peak hours due to my rl schedule so there's usually enough people to get something going. if not, pretty close to it. Building a pt isnt something that can always be done in 5 minutes. sometimes you get what you can and wait for something to pop. ask around, ask non seekers etc. i think people lose interest if they cant get something done in 5 minutes and be off to camp. People will wait surprisingly, especially jp players. dont be afraid to try it.

[TenchiHawkwing]

OK, Let's see... I've been Lv49BLU for several days now Omni. Why? Not because I'm not willing to make my own parties... I've tried several times. But when I invite a RDM... generally they'll ask if I have a tank. Now, sometimes I will most times I don't because there aren't any online.

If I don't have a tank guess what the RDM usually says? "No."
If I invite a tank without a RDM or BRD or COR (whichever the tank prefers) usually the tank won't want to join. There's usually 1 or 2 other PTs around while I'm trying to form mine. Their tank or RDM/BRD/COR leaves, the one I just asked gets invited to the PT. One of their DDs leaves... the seeking MNK WAR or RNG gets invited instead of me.

Or say I have a PT going, I got me on BLU got a NIN and a RDM and a BRD!! Good start right? All we need now are some DDs! There's 1 WAR seeking, great!! "Oh, sorry... I'm just coming back from leveling with my LS static."
I take a look at DDs in the level range that aren't seeking... "sweet a RNG!!!"

"Oh, I'm just checking the AH... I'll need to AFK for a few hours if you still need me send me a /tell"

RDM: "I was hoping we could get a PT going quick, in an hour and a half I'm gonna have to leave for awhile I gotta pick up my kids from school and then take my son to the doctor"
NIN: "Oh, I'll leave when the RDM leaves ok?"
BRD: "In that case, I think I'm just gonna go seek for awhile, if you can get some other people real quick invite me back."

Me: #(^*&@&*#^&*@#^&*#@^% &@^%&*@#^%&*@#^*(&

I think if there were more people available in any given level range for there to be more than a total of 1-2 PTs going... I might be Lv60+ on my BLU now.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Considering how obtuse a lot of posters are, it's best to be clear. And now we'll have some career DD's coming in here telling us about how they have plenty of responsibility, thank you very much.

And I will laugh to myself, but there we are.

And I laugh because this is coming from someone who's really brief and not informative at all. You're just there to agree or disagree with statments made, never to truely add to a thread.

DDs can support a PT if they really try, but a fair amount are just out to DD and not bring anything else to the table - that's where the opinion comes from, but that's only a generalization, not pure fact. We could have seen more DRG/WHMs from the start if people looked beyond the lance; CORs should realize that they're not a pure DD class and BLUs should know they are very capable or support elements in PT - a lot of them just refuse to accept it.

In addition, the current game evironment isn't very supportive toward jobs like THF, which can add support in the form of SATA and Status bolts from Xbow. RNGs also support with Xbow.

And I belive someone did once make the false claim that DDs aren't capable of support like mages are. Its not true regardless of what DDs you've PTed with that fail to do it, the tools are there and they can support, most just don't. But at the very least I know plenty of RNGs that support with bolts.

/end aside

Back on topic.

There's so much for me to do at 75 now, so much that my interest in levelling new jobs comes rarely now. I prefer to do something at my own pace, such as BST or something with a fair invite rate that I already enjoy.

There's lots of merriting to do and no matter what incentive SE could make for me to take subs like WHM beyond the 37 mark, I still hate playing it and probably wouldn't take it further.

If we expanded to level range, the issue of LFP would simply change in proportion and the jobs that lack invites still would suffer the same fate.

The only real solution would be to find some way to make support classes more attractive to play. But I don't see how that's possible since RDM, BRD, COR and WHM have so much going for them already.

[Murphie]

And I laugh because this is coming from someone who's really brief and not informative at all. You're just there to agree or disagree with statments made, never to truely add to a thread.

Brevity isn't the same thing as being uninformative. I say plenty. And I was agreeing with you, genius. Way to show me that it's not worth my time to do so, however. You are truly a piece of work.

...blah, blah, blah, paragraph, blah, blah, blah, personal detail no one cares about, blah, blah, blah, etc.

Totally, dude.