[Idun_Midgardsormr]

The reference to the A vs B claim system in the 2006 patch is close, and this is indeed the patch that has caused the problem. In effect, the main mob goes yellow the instant that the charm ability is used whereas, as kitten noted, any other abilty would cause both mobs to stay red for a short period. This is specifically the issue at hand here.

Charm does generate some hate towards the BST, as in when the mob comes uncharmed it will attack its former master (as opposed to leave which removes the hate) but this isn't applied to the pet until after it has been successfully charmed.

Whilst levelling in Toramarai canal, fighting skellie mages, I was paralyzed. I left my present set of bats and used charm on another set. Paralyze prevented the charm from completing, so the second pet did not become charmed nor did it become aggressive, but the main mob still went yellow. This tells me that it is the the state of being charmed which generates the hate, not the job ability itself. If the charm is successful, the pet is charmed and generates hate towards the BST, while if it fails, the 'pet' then turns on the BST. This is decided on the outcome of the ability not the initiation of it.

As Necropolis mentions, the 'pet' will start running towards the BST while it's status is changing, although lag can account for this as the pets location has changed (high priority) but its status and the status message have not yet been updated (lower priority). My contention is that the main mob should not be yellow at this point, However you look at it, it's broken, and the break was caused by a patch that was implemented to fix other things and this was never addressed properly.

I am not asking for charm to be modified or adjusted in any way - it works perfectly as it is. This is not the topic under discussion here. The topic is "loss of claim on the main mob" which is instantaneous when using this particular ability, and is delayed by several seconds when using any "offensive" ability.

Unless the claim system immediately releases your first claimed mob (e.g. instantaneous golding of the mob) or in some way allows for purple-label MPK (which I doubt, but I could be wrong), then the system is functioning as specified in the aforementioned patch notes.

We get the "instantaneous goldening" as you prefer to call it - the mob goes yellow, and therefore the system is NOT "functioning as specified in the aforementioned patch notes". This is a problem that is met and understood by almost every BST with the leave ability. and sidetracking this with arguments over how leave works is pointless - even bst can't agree on what decides whether a charm will succeed or fail! I can land 10 out of 10 charms on a T pet at level 60, then fail on a too weak bunny in South Gusty.

If I'm fighting a gob in Terrigan, I get in alongside the pet and wack away with an axe at it, so yes, I build up quite a bit of hate too - I often have to unlock and turn away if I'm pulling hate off the pet. When I swap pets, the mob goes yellow - there is no way at all that anyone should be able to simply voke that mob and claim it given the amount of hate I've already generated on it, but it can and does happen!

[Sabaron]

You are talking about a Bard in party using an Area of Effect attack against monsters that the party is not actively attacking. As far as I know, casting an Area of Effect spell only claims the targetted mob even though it generates enmity on more than one mob. Is this incorrect? Is a Bard himself able to claim say... 7 monsters for an indefinite period of time provided they are in range of the spell? We're not talking about party enmity dynamics which work just a bit different since each member can fight his monster--the individual claims persist and override the "party" claim.

Please note that I'm not exactly sure of this dynamic wrt AoE and party enmity dynamics as, even though I have experienced it, I have never watched it with any great rigor. I do know that, when casting Sleepga, I am able to claim a second monster, but the secondary targets are not claimed and the primary target of the spell becomes unclaimed shortly if the party is engaging a different target and no one "bothers" my Sleep-claimed mob.

I would log in and test this right now, but the servers are in maintenance. After maintenance I'll substantiate this using a similar spell (Sleepga). If I can get my BRD friend to assist, I can test Horde Lullaby specifically. Can you describe the method by which BRD maintains (this being uninterrupted red claim) claim on multiple monsters?

Got a post while I was posting:

With respect to the paralysis instance you mentioned, the non-claim is the result of the paralyze spell, not the Charm ability. Paralyze doesn't make the ability fail, it makes it not take place at all. Therefore, since paralysis ate your Charm effect, it is as though you did nothing, thus no claim.

Originally Posted by Idun_Midgardsormr

We get the "instantaneous goldening" as you prefer to call it - the mob goes yellow, and therefore the system is NOT "functioning as specified in the aforementioned patch notes".

Excellent, this is exactly what I was looking for. Since this is the case, I agree that it should be fixed.

[little ninja]

Originally Posted by Sabaron

More stuff on BST claiming:
1. When your pet is attacking a monster and is also tanking, the monster has enmity toward the pet that is greater than toward the BST.
2. When you release your pet, the enmity generated by the pet toward the monster is wiped away. The BST, himself, retains any enmity he personally generated by issuing enmity-generating commands (e.g. Sic) or by attacking the mob himself..

1 an 2 both validate my point. IF im fighting with my pet, An have taken hate during the fight, When i hit my leave command the mob shouldnt go yellow but it does, An it doesnt matter if the next hit lands or doesnt. In fact a few times its gone yellow i pulled off 1k rampages only to see it yellow while im trying to get my next attack to take off the remaining 1% of its health..

Actually ive had paralyze kick in an i took aggro from a non aggressive monster after ive tried to charm them..

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by little ninja

1 an 2 both validate my point. IF im fighting with my pet, An have taken hate during the fight, When i hit my leave command the mob shouldnt go yellow but it does, An it doesnt matter if the next hit lands or doesnt. In fact a few times its gone yellow i pulled off 1k rampages only to see it yellow while im trying to get my next attack to take off the remaining 1% of its health..

Actually ive had paralyze kick in an i took aggro from a non aggressive monster after ive tried to charm them..

To the first paragraph, this is the actual bug I was attempting to reference. To an observer who is not familiar with the techniques BST's use in the field, it might seem that the complaint was with the short-duration claim latency. Since BST does not receive the short-duration claim latency, and during this standard procedure, his main target instantly golds out rather than holding red claim for a few seconds to give the BST an opportunity to maintain claim by issuing an aggressive command, this effect can be considered "unfair" to the BST and therefore in need of correction since the BST does not receive the same benefit as everyone else does. This is the central factor in determining whether the claim of a bug is warranted. BST is entitled to the same benefits under the rules as everyone else and therefore this gives non-BSTs an unfair advantage and should be corrected.

To the second. You've really had a paralyze-eaten Charm activation generate enmity on a non-aggressive mob? With all other actions, nothing happens. For instance, if I cast Blizzard III on a monster and it gets eaten by Paralyze, I can just recast it without receiving any hate. I'm pretty sure this doesn't work with Auto-attack, however, as I have had my initial attack eaten by Paralyze and still received red-claim on the mob I targetted.

[little ninja]

Yeah it happened in the tree at the waterfall camp on th etop floor. i was fighting a goobdue when it killed my pet, an rampage did crummy damage, i then ran towards one of the flies to use as a pet. But as i went to charm it, nothing happened, then all of a sudden it was wacking on me. No charm animation, an no charm failed in my chat logs. Might be a bug as well because it wont let me at times, an ill get a message. So who knows why. My previous statement doesnt happen all the time either, but it does..

[UberDragon]

I'm currently a lvl 42 bst and I can definately confirm this bug/issue. The moment I attempt to charm a second pet regardless of success the target mob goes unclaimed. So far this hasn't resulted in my mob being stolen, but it easily could be. The most frustrating part of this for me is re-identifying my target mob.

Ex: Fighting mob with pet, I find a second pet to use... I use "leave" then "charm".. the charm is successful. Now I spin around to target my mob so I can command my pet to attack.. but what I find are two yellow mobs both halfway dead.. Now I can /check them, and if they have different levels I can identify which was my previous pet, and which is the mob, but if both previous pet and mob /check to the same level.. I loose valuable time (and HP) trying to figure out which is which.

As previously mentioned this happens even when charm is eaten by being paralyzed (which in turn causes agro from the pet you attempted to charm even though you were never able to "cast" charm).

Bottom line, that mob should stay red until it or I am dead. Or until I actually attack another mob (I would consider a failed charm as an attack and would expect that mob to go red, and my previous mob to go yellow). A successful charm as far as I'm concerned is the same thing as "invite to join party" unless that mob doesn't succomb to the beastmaster's wishes.

SE: Please fix this so all jobs are equal, it's simply not fair for one job to be at a disadvantage just because we use other mobs as party members...

~Uber