Is Alchemy Dead?

[FatCharlie]

Over this past weekend I noticed that Prism Powders and Silent Oils have been severely undecut. They're going for 20-22K and will probablyy drop even lower. For alchemists 60 and below these 2 items are usually the main source of income. Don't people understand that their items will sell if they put up their items for sale at the same price as everyone else? I'm tired of the mentality of people wanting their items to sell before anyone else's and therefore undercutting the market. How is an alchemist 60 and below supposed to make any money with this type of mentality? Don't people WANT to make a profit? I was going to retire Alchemy at 60 so I could take cooking to 100, but as the economy is now Alchemy is comepletely useless to me now. If I want to make any profit I'm going to have to level it higher so I can leave prism powders and silent oils to the n00b undercutters and make higher priced items. Sorry for the rant, but I used to be able to make a comfortable living off of oils and powders. I gave up making poison and sleeping potions for the same reason. Maybe I'll go back to those if their markets are more stable.

[Ellipses]

My alchemy is 53. I've made precisely three stacks of Silent Oil in that time, and only because I happened to have Slime Oil and Beehive Chips anyway. Never even attempted to profit off of it. Prism Powders are still profitable at 20k/stack for me, because I know how to get Glass Fiber (tip: it's not under Materials > Alchemy) and Artificial Lenses. But I don't even bother with those. Sairui-Ran, Bolt Heads, various potions, and Bolts for me.

Plus, y'know, they've been 20k for what, a week? At most? Give it a little time, Chicken Little.

[Mazon]

I totally skipped the Silent Oils and prism powder phases. For the cost of making the items, it wasn't worth it. I save my Glass Fibers, in the manner Ellipses is hinting to, and make my own prism powders because I can HQ them quite well.

Alchemy for me was nothing but profit from the get go. I looked into it and realised that there is no hot ticket item, just consumables. So I move on from one item to the next. I've since abandoned Alchemy at 60, and only come back to it for my own personal use.

Oh, and Glass Fibers still sell pretty nice. And easy to come by.

[Balfree]

Same problem here, i used to be forced to undercut or my stuff would never sell until i realised id simply give it a break as me undercutting too would just worsen the situation, even thoug i was in a situation where goods would drop drastically, poison potions took a major hit because thats what i was making a living off of, one quickly realises he cant trust on a single item, it tends to drop fast.

Nowadays i only sell certain items at certain times, i check the dynamis calendar and make poison potions to sell on that specific day, couple hours before the run happens.

I make tons of black ink and keep it in a mule, i check ffxiah's site every now and then to see how the prices are faring and when i get home i either sell them if the price is ok, or hold em for next day

[FatCharlie]

I get my Fibers from de-synthing masks. I suppose I could sell the fibers themselves, probably more profit in that. But yeah I think I'm gonna try bolts and such.

Yeah ffxiah is a great tool!!!

[Ellipses]

Yeah, relying on one or two recipes in any of the consumables crafts is dangerous. It blinds you to other (possibly more profitable) recipes, and makes you more fragile to saturation or competition. I imagine that's true in the non-consumables crafts, too, but Alchemy and Cooking are the only ones I've put real time into.

[Sabaron]

This happens a lot especially on 60- items. There are a lot of 60- alchemists who are all making money on the same things you are. Lets take a look at Silent Oil:

Bismarck Jeuno AH Prices courtesy www.ffxiah.com

Slime Oil: 25,000 / 12 (2084 ea)
Beehive Chips: 18,000 / 12 (1500 ea)
Fire Crystals: 3,000 / 12 (250 ea)
Water Crystals: 500 / 12 (42 ea)
Distilled Water: 144 / 12 (12 ea)
Triturator: 900 / 12 (75 ea)
Assuming 60 skill:

Beeswax (5): [HQ Rate ~ 50%]

Yield (@ Base HQ 2x Rate): 6 Wax / Stack of Chips

Synthesis per stack of Slime Oil:
4 Stacks of Chips = 72,000
16 Fire Crystals = 4,000
16 Distilled Water = 192
Total = 76,192 / 24 Wax
Beeswax sells at 38,000 / 12 on AH or 76,000gil for 2 stacks.
Triturate Beeswax:
4 Stacks of Chips = 72,000
6 Fire Crystals = 1,500
6 Distilled Water = 72
6 Triturator = 450
Total = 74,022
In order to make your own wax @ 60, you must triturate or it's not worthwhile on your server.

Continuing on with Silent Oil using Tritted Wax:

2 Stacks of Tritted Wax: 74,022
1 Stack of Slime Oil: 25,000
1 Stack of Water Crystals: 500
Total Cost: 99,522 gil
Silent Oil (24): [HQ Rate ~ 30%]

Yield (@ Base 2x Rate): 62.4 Oils (5 stacks + 2~3 ind.)

Silent Oil sells for 22,000gil per stack currently on Bis:

Gross Retail Value: ~114,400 gil
Profit: 14,878 gil
Profit Per Synth (6 Wax Synths + 12 Oil Synths): 827gil
Profit Margin: 15%

A 15% Markup looks good from a consumer standpoint and since what you are making is relatively easy to make, I'd say 827 gil per synthesis is a good profit. Remember that you are in a highly competitive market and if the profit margin rises to high, low-level crafters will use this synthesis to skill-up and since they will have disproportionately high inventory, they are likely to sell their oil at or just above cost to get rid of it.

I can't to a very good analysis on Prism Powder because it involves (generally) the highly volatile Goblin Mask desynthesis and I'd wager that the prices on Bismarck are -not- based on Guild or Market Fiber.

[Mazon]

Sabaron is blinding me with numbers. But I think somwhere amidst the math, there is truth.

[FatCharlie]

Agreed.

[Dux]

I am not sure what other people do with all the time they are LFP but I farm for my ingrediants for alchemy and all my crystals are sent to my many crystal mules for later synthesis.

In the 56 levels of Alchemy I have done so far I have only ever made a loss on 1 synth, and that was Carbon Fiber. I estimate I have made approximatly 500K gil profit in Alchemy so far and I expect to get closer to 600K by 60.

Alchemy is definatly not dead.

[Sabaron]

I am not sure what other people do with all the time they are LFP but I farm for my ingrediants for alchemy and all my crystals are sent to my many crystal mules for later synthesis.

In the 56 levels of Alchemy I have done so far I have only ever made a loss on 1 synth, and that was Carbon Fiber. I estimate I have made approximatly 500K gil profit in Alchemy so far and I expect to get closer to 600K by 60.

Alchemy is definatly not dead.

Dux is an example of the other kind of Alchemist you'll have trouble with in the market--the farming alchemist. This type of alchemist doesn't pay for reagents, so when they put items on the market, they're near 100% profit. Therefore, a farming alchemist will always be able to sell for less than you and make out quite nicely. You can't compete with a farming alchemist except by becoming one yourself. Expand your inventory, get a mule, and don't throw away or sell crystals and reagents that you find--subbing THF unless you're in a PT is very nice as well.

A note, however: a farming Alchemist cannot generally affect the market in any great way since it takes a lot of time to get the reagents this way, so while the farmer's products sell very quickly and you'll never touch their prices, the market value is largely determined by purchasing alchemists who can come by a much larger quantity of materials and make their money by moving large volumes of material instead. The more you can move as a purchasing Alchemist the more money you can make; even at a 15% profit margin (say 15,000 per stack) if you can move 7 stacks a day, that's 105,000gil per day. If you camp fast moving products like Silent Oil and Prism Powder zealously, you can do this. In contrast, the farming alchemist will have to farm up 4-5 stacks worth of reagents to make the same amount of money. Existing somewhere in between farming and buying is probably where you want to be.

Dux: ...groan... Carbon Fiber... I made 4 stacks of it. It took 2 RL weeks to sell 1 stack. I turned the other stacks into Carbon Fiber Fishing Rods and sold them at a slight loss to get rid of them.

[Dux]

Dux is an example of the other kind of Alchemist

I don't know why but that made me feel special. :D

Dux: ...groan... Carbon Fiber... I made 4 stacks of it. It took 2 RL weeks to sell 1 stack. I turned the other stacks into Carbon Fiber Fishing Rods and sold them at a slight loss to get rid of them.

Yep, that was probably the slowest moving skill-up item I made so far. Took about a week to get it out of Bastok AH.

[Grizzlebeard]

Jusatsu!

Farm Beastmen Blood in Pashhow and you're golden. That recipe alone made me a small fortune with HQ's.

[Standablaze]

By the time I get 2 beastmen blood I can get 2 stacks of Beehive chips to be honest, which HQ nicely.

Alchemy is not dead. I'm level 61 Alchemy, taking it to 100, and I've started making very nice profit.

Prism Powders may be a stable for most people, but it depends on your methods. There are a few ways to get glass fibre other than buying it for the current 40k on ramuh. Whenever I make prism powders, I do it in a big way. I save every bit of glass fibre I can get my hands on, from various sources and auction houses and rarely bazaars (but I have found some), and I make a good 5-8 stacks of prism powder. Thats about 200k profit and will sell rather quickly.

Beeswax is always nice if you farm. 2 stacks of beehive chips will roughly nab you a stack of beeswax at lvl60, which goes for 40k on ramuh. Today beehive chips are at 20k a stack, so there is no profit made in comparison to just selling them and not crafting them, but often enough beehive chips have dropped to 13k and below, and thats when I personally make my move and farm as much as possible.

A nice hint for people making money in alchemy: south gustaberg, vomp hill. here you can farm beehive chips, flint stones, and goblin masks.

I'm currently in the middle of lvling smithing to the 20s so I can make Iron Bullets, and when I can HQ them, I should make a nice bit of profit out of that, but nothing to relay on. When all these methods fail, I run to the fishing guild, buy all the Jellyfish I can, and make mercury. I can sell these off for 15k a stack, or turn them into poison potions (although this is tedious as they dont HQ). Again, more money.

As someone said already, the farming alchemist only makes profit. Farm farm farm, dont relay on other people as your only means of money

[Sabaron]

I like to farm Konschtat Highlands.

Sheep drop skins; if you have a large inventory, take some dark crystals, water, and Windurstian Tea Leaves with you and you can make Sheep Leather which sells for a very nice profit. You can also use your farmed sheep leather to skill up leather craft or for a couple points after you max out your skill on the leather, you can do wool with just Wind Crystals and 2 skins.

The bees drop Honey and Beehive chips; very nice. Take fire crystals and use some of your water to make wax in the field.

The saplings drop Treant Bulbs which can be used to make Vitriol (2x Bulbs + Water Crystal) which you can, in turn, use to make Acid and Corrosive weapons. The saplings also drop seeds that you can plant if your pots aren't full of cuttings, saplings, or the new Wildgrass seeds. Use a Dark Crystal on them to make Fungus or Tarutaru rice, both of which are a nice profit and well worth the crystal--you might also get a Black Rock or some Light Crystals which are both excellent results.

Mist Lizards drop skins and tails which are not necessarily lucrative, but you can use the tails to make Potions while your out and about.

Goblin Diggers and Ambushers will drop masks, and the Ambushers drop Glue.

Lightning weather occurs frequently in Konschtat and when you figure out where the Elementals spawn, you can farm Lightning Clusters.

If you have 30-35 Leathercraft you can kill the rams and turn their skins. These are nonstackable, so if you can't turn them yourself, they take up a lot of space, but they're usually profitable.

Ghosts drop Luminicloth, Revival Tree Roots, and Cotton Cloth all of which are very nice.

Dogs drop Revival Tree roots as well.

You can get flint stones, silver ore, and zinc ore from the Rock eaters in the passes and near Gusgen mines.



Make sure you level THF for farming, and farm with your main at 30+ to take advantage of Treasure Hunter.