[Ellipses]

Personally, I'm not a fan of farming. To say that any given recipe is profitable if you farm your materials is to say that it's not a profitable recipe. It's just that by farming ingredients, you've chosen to pay for your loss in time rather than paying for it directly with gil. Time is money, loss is loss.

Not that farming ingredients is a bad thing in its own right. I don't usually enjoy it, but to each his own. I just prefer to call it what it is; if a synth is only profitable with farmed ingredients, then usually it's the farming that's profitable, not the synth. (I don't think that "usually" really needs to be there but I'm too tired to think it through completely to make sure.)

[levish]

I switch recipies when oils go less than 22k a stack, i don't hang onto the oils but I also stop making them till they go back up past 25k.

Wierd thing is people were buying them at 35-50k a stack what do the silly undercutters thing they are accomplishing by driving the prices down to these stupidly low profit price points?

Reminds me of the gas prices, alchemists should form a opec of sorts and adjust pricing as needed to maintain a decent margin on stuff ...

[FatCharlie]

I agree with you completely Levish. I'm convinced n00b crafters don't want to make money. They just want the satisfaction of knowing that their stuff sold first.

[supersimian]

No alchemy is not dead at all. Anybody who is having a hard time with alchemy and is unable to make gill at the craft just needs to take a closer look to what can be made with alchemy. The first step would be going to any of the plethora of crafting sights on the web and check the various makeable items with alchemy and seriously consider "is this profitable", perhaps checking the recipe costs and item values.

For instance: A Hellfire axe is pretty cheap to make (butterfly axe-slime oil-firesand) and they are worth like 15-20k NQ, HQ fetches an xtra 10k.

Shinobi Gitana are like 4k in AH, grab a dozen of those a stack of animal glue and some potions of whatever kind. The HQs of the Shinobi made weapons sell quickly and are very profitable.

If you can make melt knives they HQ well you should make some as they are profitable to make and sell.

I make about 5 or 6 times back on robot parts. You can make some with only lvl 60 and wether you HQ those or not the end result is the same, (profit).

Make a dozen beeswords or spathas, if you are even lvl 50 you may be surprised at your HQ rate and profit from those and they are very cheap to make.

These are some examples of things that are profitable to the NON lvl 100 like alchemists. I have done all of these things and much more to make profit and have made considerable profits like this from the Alchemy craft. Try looking into the possabilities and you might even find yourself a temporary gil niche someplace in the craft that is being overlooked which happens alot as alchemists tend to be lazy and stick to prism powder and oils solely for thier profits (which I often do myself, i cant blame you). Alchemy may be very easy and cheap to lvl, but it takes a little time and consideration to pull off making some actually real profits from it.

OH, and one more piece of advise from anyone who is having a hard time with alchemy profiteering, lvl up some other crafts. For example if you have lvl 50 or so smithing and your alchemy is lvl 80 or so you should be pumping out the bullet HQs no problem which are profitable to make and easy like beeswax to make. Of consider those Boltheads which are now profitable sense SE allowed them to stack to 99. etc. etc. etc.

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by supersimian

...
Shinobi Gitana are like 4k in AH, grab a dozen of those a stack of animal glue and some potions of whatever kind. The HQs of the Shinobi made weapons sell quickly and are very profitable.

Shinobi Gatana are actually [usually] cheaper than this from the Bastok Tenshodo in Port Bastok and available in unlimited quantity--price based on demand like the guilds.

[Claymore00]

Originally Posted by Ellipses

Personally, I'm not a fan of farming. To say that any given recipe is profitable if you farm your materials is to say that it's not a profitable recipe. It's just that by farming ingredients, you've chosen to pay for your loss in time rather than paying for it directly with gil. Time is money, loss is loss.

This is something many people forget in economics; if you farm, check the prices of what you've gotten in drops. Farming can have profit loss too, if you synth something that sells for less then the ingredients you farmed.

In that case, you could have made more money selling the raw goods. You loose money by synthing just as you would make a loss buying materials and selling the final good for less then production costs.

[FatCharlie]

Very good point Claymore ans Ellipses. This is something I've take into consideration lately. I've also crafted weapons from time to time but on Bismarck, weapons seem to go in cycles and can't be relied upon completely. Recently I've limited myself to Hakutaku clusters but alas even this is subject to gilsellers and undercutters. I sold my first one for 1.2 mil, then the 2nd @ 800k, and the 3rd @ 600k; all of which I had to split with the peple who helped me farm the eyes. I know Alchemy is not dead, per se, but it has certainly been reduced to a nickel and dime craft. And when you're trying to save up 5mil for a noble's tunic it gets severely frustrating spending 100% of my game time farming/crafting for minimal profits.

[Thoronas]

Lvl woodworking and craft your own status bolts. If you watch the AH carefully you will probably find that some bolts just aren't made very often but the demand is still there. If you can make your own bolts and sell them (either are single quivers or stacks of quivers) you will make more than just by making the bolt heads. You need lvl 16 woodworking in order to do it and that doesn't take long at all.

Right now Im lvl 65 and can make some bolt heads enough to make 5 stacks of quivers and sell them for profit in the hundreds of thousands if Im patient.

[Sabaron]

Originally Posted by Thoronas

Right now Im lvl 65 and can make some bolt heads enough to make 5 stacks of quivers and sell them for profit in the hundreds of thousands if Im patient.

I prefer to keep my inventory low... Eventually some craft-tard skiller-upper will make 10 million of your product and flood the market, ruining it for several weeks, so I only make what I think I can sell right now.

[Bricklayer]

Originally Posted by Claymore00

This is something many people forget in economics; if you farm, check the prices of what you've gotten in drops. Farming can have profit loss too, if you synth something that sells for less then the ingredients you farmed.

In that case, you could have made more money selling the raw goods. You loose money by synthing just as you would make a loss buying materials and selling the final good for less then production costs.

Oxymoron of the Day: Profit Loss

Maybe you should say you "make less money by synthing..." Anytime you sell something farmed (for free), or a 100% derivative thereof (i.e. you didn't buy the crystal or any other mats), you have made a profit.

Exception: You spent money to farm, e.g. hiring a chocobo, buying tools, food, etc..

The money you make from farming drops is pure profit. How much profit you make from the drops you obtained depends on how clever you are. But, you will never *lose* money by selling items you farmed from drops, or selling synths obtained solely from drops.

[Sabaron]

I believe what he's referring to is a lower profit from a synthed product as opposed to the profit from selling the raw material.

For instance if 12 Sheepskins sell at 2k each, you get 24k, but if you synth it into a stack of leather that sells at 20k, you've "lost" 4k in profit.

One also has to take into account the age old addage that "Time is money". How much money could you have made sitting at the AH churning out stacks of Beeswax while you were out dinking around killing bees for it?

[Bricklayer]

Originally Posted by Sabaron

I believe what he's referring to is a lower profit from a synthed product as opposed to the profit from selling the raw material.

For instance if 12 Sheepskins sell at 2k each, you get 24k, but if you synth it into a stack of leather that sells at 20k, you've "lost" 4k in profit.

One also has to take into account the age old addage that "Time is money". How much money could you have made sitting at the AH churning out stacks of Beeswax while you were out dinking around killing bees for it?

Just nitpicking... Of course you could also figure in your subscription costs, equipment upgrades, etc. Also, you could look at bottlenecks, such as 7 AH slots, when you're selling singles vs. stacks... it's all very interesting.

[Grizzlebeard]

Also consider the time wasted farming as an expense. Compare the value of goods bought directly from the AH and say four hours of constant synthing with the chance of a number of HQ's and the margin made from AH bought then sold with three hours farming maybe two stacks of beehive chips, if you're extremely lucky, then another hour for synthing. I know which made me a higher margin when I used to synth for income.

[Kushiel]

I originally got into Alchemy for the fireworks. I never was into the whole silent oils and prism powders. Silent oils alone are too much of a hassle. Either spend a lot of gil on buying materials or spend a lot of time on farming them.


Thats just me though xD

[Sabaron]

My most recent analysis of the Asura Stealth Medications showed that Oils made from Olive Oil were running at 39.17% minimum HQ to break even; from Slime Oil--106.69% Minimum HQ. Prism Powder (not from masks) was at 457.16% minimum HQ. This is why I don't touch either market... ever. They've been like this forever--both before and after deflation set in, but Prism Powder used to enjoy a much better profit margin when made from Masks... It may still, but if you look at the Glass Fiber market, you'll notice that it's better just to sell the glass instead. Ink has always been a good product for lower-level Alchemists and is running at 9.87% Min HQ from Squid, 46.07% from Nebimonite, and 27.20% from Kalamari.

All rates are from Asura.

Farm-crafting is a much better option these days... if your margin slides due to inflation below cost, then, while you're not losing "value" because everything else deflates as well, your money hasn't generated a profit, and if the dip is too steep, you've lost market position from it. I've been mining Oldton Movalpolos to desynthesize Moblin materials (to give away a little secret) for some HELM cash, which I find a lot better than mob-farming unless you're a THF with a BLM friend. HELM can be soloed efficiently. To do farming most effectively you need Treasure Hunter and -ga to maximize trains.

Deflation makes farming more attractive which results in slides in the farming markets, but at least you always come out ahead since it is highly unlikely that your margins are very thin.

HELM almost requires crafting skill because most of the good stuff can't be stacked with the exception of Harvesting which produces a very nice array of stackables, but they have a tendency to be worth a lot less than ELM products. Red Moko from Giddeus is always a winner though.