[Murphie]

-- You'd have little or no reason, other than the word of the person telling you, which admittedly is rough to swallow, but generally we wouldn't have a reason to go around just picking people at random and telling them they're partying with RMT just out of spite, unless it's someone who has a nasty grudge, in which that's pretty screwed up of themselves.

That still doesn't explain how this random person is supposed to know you're on the level. You say that it wouldn't make any sense for you to tell this to people at random, but that's exactly what it would seem like if someone did that to me.

-- I don't recall dodging any facts of word-of-mouth in this debate, though if you could point me out to where I might have said it, that'd be nice memory refresher.

I was referring to the general "you" who support The List. I should have been more specific.

And yes, word of mouth is rather unreliable, but in many cases in this game it's about the best one can get. Not everyone has a PC to take screenshots of dialogue, and not everyone on the PC is using a windower or whatever program to take screenshots of dialogue. And even then, screenshots can be photoshopped for those dedicated enough to frame anyone they dislike. So screenshots are more reliable than word of mouth, but not by much. The List is more for those who actually look at it.

So if there is no way of reliably verifying any of these names, then what is the point of having a list at all?

You say there are people who've had their endgame reputations ruined due to this list

I've said no such thing.

Not every endgame Linkshell in Seraph treats the List as a rulebook/bible/refrence guide, yet some people apparently think otherwise. The endgame linkshells who are so fed up with RMT that they contribute/follow the List do it for their own welfare. People listed as helping RMT can and have found linkshells who don't give a damn and are having a productive endgame existence.

That still doesn't explain where the proof is that these folks who are listed are involved in RMT.

Had you stated that this was a private forum, I might have agreed. However, you're right. This is a public forum, and anyone can post anything the please, as long as it falls within the guidelines presented by the administrators/moderators, which they and Cole have clearly come to an agreement upon, so regardless of yours or anyone elses opinion on whether that thread belongs or not, the moderators and Cole have come to a compromise, and it has been given the OK to have a place here.

And we have been invited to start a new thread (which we are currently posting in) for comments or criticisms on this List. What's the problem?

But as you state that you are allowed to speak your mind here because it's a public forum, Cole has the same freedom, and yet you would seem to want to have The List eliminated, thus silencing Cole from expressing his ideas here, and therefore contradicting your very belief of what a public forum is for.

Speaking one's mind and blackballing people with little to no real evidence are two entirely different matters. This isn't an issue of Free Speech.

As for players who don't frequent forums and they find themselves blackballed, I'm sure that not every other player is too stubborn to at least tell them why they are in the position they're in. People obviously are told, as there are players who have come to the forums, signed up, and their very first post was in The List, defending themselves, or attacking the accusers, so obviously word-of-mouth is directing them here one way or another.

What proof do you have that these people who posted on the forums were the individuals referenced in the list. It would be ridiculously simple for anyone to manufacture an account under the name of a character on Seraph and make any number of claims. All I've seen is that anyone at all who raises an objection is essentially shouted down by Cole in a poorly worded rant and threats of Admin interference. I've seen many reasonable arguments against the list, but I have yet to see a single reasonable argument for it.

As for this list being right or wrong.... there are signs that lead to both answers being correct. No system is flawless. Not a single one. Not even the ones that the creators of this fine game have made, and yet they are in place because they serve a purpose rather than just sit there and do nothing. Out of curiosity, I decided to just scope out some other forums from other servers and I noticed that some of them have Blacklist threads and in those I hardly see proof via screenshots. Just word of mouth, and even some are just one-line insults and accusations. I find it intriguing that The List gets singled out in these so-called witch hunts. Minus some variations in the reasoning behind them, all the lists are hardly different.

I'd love it if you'd link to these lists so the rest of us could see what you're referring to. Regardless, I sincerely doubt that any of them could be nearly as self-righteous as Cole's list.

The bottom line is that players, individually or collectively don't have any right to arbitrarily decide who and who isn't RMT. While I agree that SE could likely do more about the issue (as could every other MMO company out there), that doesn't mean that I have any right or responsiblity to take up that mantle.