Hagun or KO?

[Viciouss]

OK, I am still relatively new to this game in terms of being a 75, and my gear for Sam is nothing special. Onimaru, Saotome Kote, Fuma Sune-ate, Myochin Haidate, Chivy, Potent/warwolf, Hauby, fowling earring, standard rings.

I know I need to upgrade these things, and the only way for me to do it presently its through the AH. I am trying to get sky access but its a slow process with my LS and shouting for it doesnt work to well either -_-

Most of my gil comes from BCNMs, so it would be a process, but I want at least one of these, so which do you guys reccomend, the Hagun, or the Kirin's Osode. Or is there a piece that is better than both of these that I can get? The Hagun runs for 3 mil give or take and the KO is about 2.1-2.5 mil. Thats a lot to me, I have never had more than 1.1 and I didnt have it for very long.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Hagun or KO?

Osode is wasted on anyone that's not a RNG. I'm not saying that out of RNG bias, its just that its the job that draws the most benefit from the Osode and SAM will only get benefit from STR and DEX vs a RNG gettin STR, DEX, AGI and MND benefits out of it. SAM has also since seen better options for body.

Obtaining a Hagun would be preferable, but so would CoP Mission progress so you can quest the ENM for a chance at getting it from that. CoP progress to 50 caps will also get you a choice and Soboro Sukihiro, which is awesome for /DNC and /RNG subs. Bear with your Onimaru for the time being and don't let the eliist prick SAMs get to you, I would work on gettting a Hagun for free before spending gil on it.

Friendly warning, if your focus is endgame for SAM, you're not alone and face overwhelming competition for the things that are valueble to SAM. I would seriously consider spinning that COR of yours to your advantage (albeit respectfully, if you are using level 22 bullets and not the best for your level, I will find you and desynth all your SAM gear while you sleep o.o), as its going to be far more attractive to your endgame activities than your SAM ever will.

Work on finishing /WHM for endgame COR stuff, get /DNC done for bother jobs as /DNC is pretty hot stuff for SAM particularly and some events and leveling it up will fetch you more seals for BCNMs. Finishing up COR will also improve your chances of finishing CoPs. Sky access you just need your friends to get off thier asses to help you get.

Finally, prioritize a Haste build before pursuing Hagun. Dusk gear is pretty cheap these days. Dusk Hands/Feet, a Walhra Turban and Swift belt will push your SAM further than simply upgrading to Hagun will.

[Viciouss]

Re: Hagun or KO?

Hey thanks for your reply, I actually do have the W. Turban, I knew I was forgetting something. So the Dusk Gear? I am aware of its existence, I have the Fuma feet which are haste +3%, looking at the dusk feet, ATK +4 haste +2, is that worth replacing the fuma? I am also aware of the swift belt, just havent been able to get it.

/DNC is done, usually I am SAM/DNC if not SAM/RNG.

As for COR, yeah I have every intention of finishing it whenever PO lets me reactivate my ID, its priority #1, and I use Iron Bullets and now that I am 66 will use Steel Bullets xP. The problem is the gun, I still have the AF gun cuz again, friends are lazy and dont want to help with Shark Gun, or the Murderer earring. Fortunately the AF weapon is still pretty decent.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Hagun or KO?

No, AF gun has been substandard since 56, Matchlock gun was better ten levels ago. If you can't get a shark or murderer, there's no shame in matchlock until you can upgrade to Coffinmaker, Martial Gun or one of the others.

[Callisto]

Re: Hagun or KO?

Osode is wasted on anyone that's not a RNG. I'm not saying that out of RNG bias, its just that its the job that draws the most benefit from the Osode and SAM will only get benefit from STR and DEX vs a RNG gettin STR, DEX, AGI and MND benefits out of it. SAM has also since seen better options for body.

For Y/G/K Osode is still going to be the best WS Body you can use the majority of the time. All 3 of them get a pretty substantial hidden attack and accuracy bonus, they're one of the few times where loading up on as much STR as possible is the best thing you can do.

That said, Hagun is still a better investment of 3m. As far as Fumas, it kind of depends on your other gear and your level of Store TP merits, if the Store TP from Hachiman Sune-Ate do not shave off a hit between 0->100 TP then Fumas will be the best option in the slot, but without Rajas Ring that's pretty dependent on the rest of your stuff.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Hagun or KO?

For Y/G/K Osode is...

What is this strange manner of abbreviation o.o?

[Nuriko]

Re: Hagun or KO?

Your high-level SAM WS:

Tachi: Yukikaze
Tachi: Gekko
Tachi: Kasha

Y/G/K

[Viciouss]

Re: Hagun or KO?

For Y/G/K Osode is still going to be the best WS Body you can use the majority of the time. All 3 of them get a pretty substantial hidden attack and accuracy bonus, they're one of the few times where loading up on as much STR as possible is the best thing you can do.

That said, Hagun is still a better investment of 3m. As far as Fumas, it kind of depends on your other gear and your level of Store TP merits, if the Store TP from Hachiman Sune-Ate do not shave off a hit between 0->100 TP then Fumas will be the best option in the slot, but without Rajas Ring that's pretty dependent on the rest of your stuff.

My Store TP merits are 5/5, I have a 6 hit build with the GK and a 5 hit build with the Polearm. I also have the hachiman gear, the ech. ring, and should obtain the Store TP grip from Campaign sooner or later. I dont need to wear all of those to get my 6 hit build tho.

[Malacite]

Re: Hagun or KO?

Osode is wasted on anyone that's not a RNG

Eh don't be so fast to dismiss this thing. It's a great WS piece and has many uses for the other jobs that can equip it. It's not ideal for all of them but it's still worth having. That said I'd prioritize Hagun over Osode. For SAM, Osode is the best WS piece when subbing THF bar none (Usukane comes damn close however)

Osode is still worth WS even /WAR over Haub now (maybe not Haub +1) thanks to the 2 handed change. A little less ACC & Attack but that 75% STR mod is as beastly as ever. It's not a bad TP piece for MNK either if you don't have Shura.

Oh and it's Y/G/K/R now :3

Onimaru, Saotome Kote, Fuma Sune-ate, Myochin Haidate, Chivy, Potent/warwolf, Hauby, fowling earring, standard rings.

Onimaru is actually a very good GKT, Hagun is only marginally better for what it costs. Rindomaru is another cheap, potentially very powerful alternative to Hagun (it can beat it with top gear) if you luck out on the augments. A Store TP value of +12 or greater for example will allow you to ditch Hachiman Kote for Dusk or Askar gloves.

Saotome Kote should be macro for Meditate only, get yourself some Hachiman Kote to help enable a 6-hit build (6-hits to 100 TP).

You're fine with Fuma. Only thing better for SAM really is Usukane Feet, which means doing Salvage and paying out the nose for the synthesis materials. If you can get them though they are without rival. (That whole set is just monstrously powerful IMO)

Myochin Haidate should be swapped out for Hachiman until you can get a pair of Byakko's Haidate. This means getting into a Sky LS, which while frustrating has big pay offs for those who can tough it out. Nothing touches the Haidate for TP (+15 DEX and +5 Haste) except Usukane and that's only for black belt MNK really.

Chiv chain can be replaced with Peacock Charm/Amulet, Ancient Torque or Justice Torque. Snow & Light Gorgets are also wonderful for WS. They buff damage by about 5% IIRC (Snow covers Gekko, Yukki & Rana while Light covers Kasha)

Warwolf is solid for WS and I'd keep using it. For TP though, consider the Saotome Koshi-Ate or a swift belt (Velocious or Speed Belt is ideal but that's dream gear for most people)

Fowling Earring is fine, but you will also want a Brutal Earring (+5% Double Attack) ASAP.

Rajas Ring + Ecphoria Ring is great combo for SAM, and you may wish to get Uthalam's Ring from completing the Aht Urhgan story (though Jalzahn's Ring is much better if you like COR a lot)

[Viciouss]

Re: Hagun or KO?

Thanks for your response ^^. I have the hachiman hands, I have a lot of hand gear that gets macro'd in a lot. I will look into the Hachiman Legs, I haven't really considered them at all, since there isnt a lot of options for basic leg gear for SAM. I really need to get sky access -_-

[Callisto]

Re: Hagun or KO?

Oh and it's Y/G/K/R now :3

Yeah but I wouldn't lump Rana in with the other three at all, it's a decent WS in its own right but you do not want to be gearing the same for Rana as you do the others.

[Neverslip]

Re: Hagun or KO?

Instead of the Hachiman legs, I wear Dusk to TP in on the suggestion from my friend until I can get something better like Askar and eventually Byakko's. At this point I switch to I believe the +Str AF for WS'n. My opinion on Hagun vs Osode is people will be condescending to you if you don't have Hagun but Osode doesn't carry that BS. Like people have said, there's other options for body armor. So I'd go for Hagun between the two, myself.

I'm the proud user of a Oni (Soboro too)... until I can afford a Hagun. (^.^)d But my buddy let me use his Hagun for a while when we were breaking latents. TBH, Hagun wasn't a huge leap. It wasn't like night and day... more like... early evening and late morning. Maybe it shows when you parse alot and it may shine brighter the further up the Str scale you are... Course, that was only based off a couple hours using it and I don't parse.

[Malacite]

Re: Hagun or KO?

True, Rana doesn't have that sexy 75% STR mod (or a kick ass enfeeblement) but it is an end-game WS which is why I lump it in there now.

TBH, Hagun wasn't a huge leap. It wasn't like night and day... more like... early evening and late morning.

And this is why I refuse to pay 3 million gil for it when Rindomaru is 50k. Fuck it, especially if you can get WS damage +5% on yours. Hagun only really starts to shine over other GKT at 200 TP, and it does nothing for helping Rana's damage (Onimaru is actually better for Rana). It's a great SAM/THF weapon and/or if you have loads and I mean LOADS of STR to abuse with it, but otherwise it's the dramatic increase in power like Joyeuse is for a PLD.

It's still the best AH GKT (except for Rindomaru with the right gear & augments to support it but you have to be very lucky) but that doesn't justify the cost IMO. Should be 1 mil at the most like it used to be before people started to bandwagon SAM.

[Callisto]

Re: Hagun or KO?

True, Rana doesn't have that sexy 75% STR mod (or a kick ass enfeeblement) but it is an end-game WS which is why I lump it in there now.

More that Rana doesn't have a large accuracy or pDIF bonus like Y/G/K do, meaning you actually need to actively gear for both Accuracy and Attack instead of just lumping on a bunch of STR+ and calling it a day like you do with Y/G/K. Rana itself can actually put out some solid numbers with proper gear/buffs, but the number of people who just use it to open Darkness and use their plain old WS sets is atrocious.

There's no point in using Darkness to potentially squeeze out an extra couple hundred damage over Fusion/Fragmentation if you're going to put up crappy Rana numbers and lose a few hundred compared to what you would have gotten if you just did Gekko > Kasha or Yuki > Gekko.

[Malacite]

Re: Hagun or KO?

It depends on the mob too actually.

Even in my standard WS gear, I've had Rana put up higher numbers than Gekko, though that's largely on weak mobs (I prefer to stick to Y/G/K on anything high lv regardless, unless making a multi-step SC)


My current favorite is 7-way darkness :3

Gekko > Yuki > Gekko > Gekko > Kasha > Rana > Gekko.

Tried it in campaign battle for shits & giggles, did some pretty epic damage.