DRG/NIN? O.o

[fencingkitty]

Apologies if this is elsewhere. Searched around a bit in the forums and didn't particularly find anything.

Question is...does this seem like a good idea??? Really??? O.o

I've been asked to sub NIN on 2-3 parties for dragoon in the last week.

I do realize that I need to work on SAM for a sub and that DRG/WAR is taking my life in my hands a bit, but shouldn't a tank be able to keep hate off DRG/WAR's standard tp'ing melee hits? I try to take care of ws'ing at the end or holding a Super Jump for emergency hate, but it just seems ridiculous that I've been asked to sub NIN multiple times recently for this when all it's for is shadows and a lower damage output.

And in all my parties since about 55 the only really effective tank to keep hate and solidly hold it has been, get this, PLD/NIN. (which I was always told was pretty much just a merit/DD build for PLD) PLD/WAR do an ok job and NIN tanks are right out in keeping hate off. The PLD/NIN did a great job keeping hate on themselves w/2 dragoons in party against Colibri.

Admittedly semi-rant, but also genuinely curious if DRG/NIN is supposedly becoming acceptable. It just doesn't seem like a beneficial sub job and just another OMG sub NIN for any melee solution.

[Evion]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

Anything/NIN is good "at some point" in the game...

Although your DRG is higher in levels, I'd say almost any DD/NIN can be a semi tank until about 39 with DNC backup IMHO.

[Maju]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

Ahaha!

I love it! The Utsusemi disease in this game has become so severe that it's spread outside merit parties it seems. DRG/NIN in their 60s... that's priceless!

It seems like people can no longer tank properly. I guess people have been playing without tanks for too long.

[LilithAngel]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

Whoever told you to /NIN needs to be shot in the face.

Repeatedly.

Like, right now.

[Eiyoko]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

So. Let's see how this combo is supposed to benefit DRG in an exp party...

Ninjitsu

You get all of the ichi-ban ninjitsu up to level thirty, 34 is tonko-ni and level 37 is utsusemi-ni

Job Abilities

NONE.

Job Traits

Stealth
Dual Wield + 2
Resist Bind + 2
Subtle Blow + 2

...wait, how is that supposed to benefit Dragoon?

It doesn't...

[DakAttack]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

It's time to stop abusing spoiler tags.

[Celeal]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

Well, this is a sign of party that does not give a damn about party dynamics: No proper hate controls, no proper back-line support/curing, etc.

[theboxcatcher]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

the only possible reason for any drg to /nin is for merit parties when you are 74-75 with ustu:Ni thats it just call people retards for telling you different


anywho just go solo if anyone tries to be a prick i soloed my self to 75 its not that hard i was getting 6-7k an hour and then 7-8k an hour duoing with people at times

[LilithAngel]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

I wouldn't even /NIN for merit parties. /SAM has been pratically remade to be the 2-hander subjob of choice, and going from that to anything else other than /WAR or perhaps /THF is asking to be laughed at. Hard.

DRG/SAM has more than enough defensive options to keep it alive in merit situations, so there's absolutely no need to /NIN. It also actually gives you more offensive options in the long run as well. That'll win you more battles than the one-trick-pony /NIN is any day.

[hongman]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

I get why so many people hate on /NIN, but I dont get why many people also deny the usefulness of it.

Afterall, if it wasnt useful, it wouldnt be so popular?

I had a merit party just after the buff as NIN DRG DRG DRG BRD RDM, me being the RDM. All DRG's bar one subbed SAM.

Maybe they dont know how to do their job or w/e, but they were taking a serious bashing. S-TE didnt do a lot. After I continously sank my entire MP pool in 2 fights, the other 2 went on /NIN and it was hello chains after that.

So, I guess its down to the players. /SAM sometimes isnt enough if the mob is on you for longer than 2 or 3 hits.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

While I can see people's rationale behind swearing off Drg/Nin, I can appreciate why it's being more common to ask for it as a support job.

1: Virtually hate free self curing in a pinch, while retaining the offensive capabilities of Wyvern's Breath.

2: A solid defensive barrier.. yes, I am well aware that Seigan is good, however, Utsusemi is guaranteed avoidance while giving the DD's who get hit full emnity loss as though they weren't mitigating any damage at all.

3: Because of the emnity shrugging effect of Utsusemi, DD's can hit much harder, and subsequently kill monsters much quicker without draining the support sides resources.

Yes, /War and /Sam are definately more offensive, but - they lose the above. Most of the time I play Drg, it's /War or /Sam - but, on mobs that hate will be sketchy - I can appreciate why people say /Nin. Especially if using tanks who are slower to gain hate but can keep it solidly, such as Pld/Nin or Nin/Rdm.

/Sam doesn't get Seigan till 70 if my memory serves me correctly, so you have one Third Eye, or 3 Shadows prior to that.

It's less about having no hate mechanics, but trying to keep damage output solid, while not draining all the support resources beyond their capability to maintain decent exp chains.

[Celeal]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

I get why so many people hate on /NIN, but I dont get why many people also deny the usefulness of it.

Afterall, if it wasnt useful, it wouldnt be so popular?

I had a merit party just after the buff as NIN DRG DRG DRG BRD RDM, me being the RDM. All DRG's bar one subbed SAM.

Maybe they dont know how to do their job or w/e, but they were taking a serious bashing. S-TE didnt do a lot. After I continously sank my entire MP pool in 2 fights, the other 2 went on /NIN and it was hello chains after that.

So, I guess its down to the players. /SAM sometimes isnt enough if the mob is on you for longer than 2 or 3 hits.

If the DD work together and all launch their WS in a close interval of time, the mob should die within seconds without giving the mob a chance to do serious damage to the party. This technique is used by the DD in the old days traditional parties, when there is NO SATA, the DD make sure their spike DD will KO the mob (usually in the form of Skillchain + MB, or the DD best WS and sequence of JA, etc).

DRG x 3 + NIN in your party, plus a BRD, I expect NO less then 5k damage from WS if they all use WS about the same time (if you count the pet's dmg as well). If that does not finish off the mob, that is what Jumps, High Jumps, Mediate is for --- to finish it off, or Seigen + Third Eye, Super Jump to reduce damage taken and a few Cures from the back-lines to keep the chain going.

Seriously, I understand WAR/NIN, DRK/NIN, RNG/NIN, MNK/NIN is "well-rounded," but DRG unlike other DD, DRG/SAM has enough tools to bridge the gap.

[hongman]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

If the DD work together

Need I say anymore?

[Celeal]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

LOLz, level 75 "dunes" party ... Orz

I have seen DD/NIN as an MP-sink or dies too due to lack of skill/common-sense.

[Vyuru]

Re: DRG/NIN? O.o

Whoever told you to /NIN needs to be shot in the face.

Repeatedly.

Like, right now.

And then raised to be shot some more, maybe toss in a Barrage and Eagle Eye Shot.

I get why so many people hate on /NIN, but I dont get why many people also deny the usefulness of it.

Afterall, if it wasnt useful, it wouldnt be so popular?

Because it stats in Fencingkitty's character information that she is lvl 66, and thus doesn't gain from either Seigan or Utsu: Ni.

Also, it is popular because most of the jobs that use it also have decent-good stats in one handed weapons, the only two jobs that don't have good stats in one handed weapons would be Sam and Drg. Well, Mnk and Pup as well, but they are fairly strong on their own and don't really need a DD sub to boost their damage.

1: Virtually hate free self curing in a pinch, while retaining the offensive capabilities of Wyvern's Breath.

While true, the healing breath trigger with a mixed wyvern and AF helm is what, 1/3 your max hp? Which is only 1-2 hits from the normal exp level mob assuming no defense food is eaten? I'd rather go drg/rdm myself. Also if she is leveling off of those fire crawler things then since it's an AoE special attack she'll still get hit.

End result IMO:

Tanks, and jobs able to tank, should start tanking again and you should build a PROPER party setup instead of some asinine, "we don't need no healer" party setup that won't ever work.

If you're having problems with hate control either invite a Thf or failing that ask someone to come /thf for TA.

Oh wait, that'd involve working as a team, which from what I gather from the OP was unlikely to happen.